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  • Writer's pictureSusan Tatum

Bold Guarantees, The Secret to Attracting The Right Clients

Updated: Sep 15, 2022

with Charles Gaudet, Founder and CEO Predictable Profits

How can your company grow by providing big, bold, guarantees? Charles Gaudet, CEO and Founder of Predictable Profits, shares how his business coaching firm helps his clients accelerate their businesses and overcome common mistakes. Bold guarantees remove risk for customers and bring more of the right customers over the line when it comes to closing the sale. Charles works with 7 and 8 figure businesses that range from retail to professional services but shares tips that are effective for even small businesses with small budgets.

Notes from the Show

Are you looking for ways to expedite growth in your company? Charles Gaudet is the CEO and Founder of Predictable Profits, a coaching firm working with 7 and 8 figure companies. Charles and his team of 16 coaches help answer these big three questions: What is it going to take to grow the company faster? How do we bring more predictability to revenue? How to scale when the company is dependent on the owner?

Predictable Profits niche is in the revenue of the companies they work with that range from retail to professional services. While these types of companies might seem vastly different, Charles shares about the overlap they share and where he comes in. A strategy that works for both sectors of business: Guarantees. Charles encourages companies to go bold with their guarantees, something so extensive it's going to make the CEO squirm. The goal for this is to remove customer risk, getting them interested in your product with a guarantee so wild they have absolutely nothing to lose because the company assumes all the risk.

How does this not bankrupt a company? Charles goes on to share several examples of extreme guarantees that allow for premium pricing of a product and actually produce such fewer returns that it is barely recognizable by the business. As a business owner, you cannot sell something you do not honestly believe will have your guaranteed results or value, otherwise you’re setting yourself up for failure. Additionally, if you’re focused on providing the guarantee to the right client versus any client, the narrowed client base will work in your favor, putting your product or service in the hands of someone who truly wants it to work.

Charles talks about some big mistakes companies are making in business development. Pre-heating your prospects is a great way to avoid some of these mistakes. “I see you everywhere” are magic words for a company, meaning you’ve already gotten that much further in the sales process by appearing in your desired clients' world on a frequent basis. Familiarity breeds trust. There are three steps in business development: create demand, capture demand, and close demand. Creating demand is all about the law of effective frequency, which requires 20 brand impressions to make a sale.

For small businesses with smaller budgets, some strategies can seem out of reach. Charles shares a few tips for business owners on accelerating growth.

  • Done is better than perfect. Get started so that you can collect data and make improvements from there.

  • Seek Guidance. You don’t need to guess your way through. With guidance, you can learn tips and tricks that can save your business. For example: Do not use your primary email domain for outbound marketing.

  • Be Hyper Personal. Take 4 minutes to research and learn about your client and make the first line specialized, specific, and unique to only that client.

If you’re interested in learning more about Predictable Profits, you can find them online or connect with Charles Gaudet on LinkedIn.

What's Inside:

  • Risk removal in this economic environment.

  • Why you should be using guarantees so bold it makes you squirm.

  • Mistakes everybody is making in business development.

  • Pre-heating your prospects.

  • What is the law of effective frequency?

  • An interesting tip for protecting your email domain.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Transcribed by AI Susan Tatum 0:36

Hello friends, and welcome back to stop the noise. I'm Susan Tatum and today I'm talking with Charles Gaudet, who is the CEO of Predictable Profits. And I'm really excited about not only having this conversation but you being able to listen to this conversation because Charles is one of the few people that I've run across that has really a defined business development process for professional services firms. So Charles, welcome. So glad to have you here.

Charles Gaudet 1:07

It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you very much.

Susan Tatum 1:09

So anybody that's listening, that doesn't, that isn't familiar with you. Tell us a little bit about what you do, how you got here, how you started doing this, and who you are.

Charles Gaudet 1:21

Awesome. So I've been an entrepreneur since the age of four, never had a traditional, quote unquote, real job. After graduating from college, I started a business nominated by Ernst and Young as being one of the nation's best seed stage companies. By the time I was 24, I created my first multimillion dollar business. Then from that point, I continued to build and grow a number of different companies until 2010, somebody offered to pay me to help them grow their company. And that's when I started Predictable Profits, Predictable Profits is a coaching company specializing and working with seven and eight figure companies. And we've taken many companies over the Inc 5000 fastest growing companies list, including one company that we recently took from a million to about 45 million within five years. You know, typically, companies that come into us asking themselves, one to three questions are saying, what is it going to take to grow my company faster? Or some months fee some months or famine? How do we bring more predictability into the revenue? Or the third one is just the company's to depend on me, how do we scale?

Susan Tatum 2:22

Me being the owner? Or the founder or whatever? Yeah.

Charles Gaudet 2:25

Owner? Yeah.

Susan Tatum 2:26

So am I correct in my belief that it is mostly professional services firms that you work with?

Charles Gaudet 2:33

So we actually have companies that range from, there's a very famous watch company that's doing hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars a year, I've been with the CEO for the last couple years, two three years, all the way down to agencies, and we probably have more agencies than any other market. But we've I mean, we've just due to our referral sources, that's how we've gotten so many clients, and I've got a team of 16 coaches that work with me. And you know, we've, it's just, we've gotten a lot of press recently, which is, which has sort of helped drive a lot of lead traffic, in addition to the sources so

Susan Tatum 3:12

well, you got a lot of people that are out there saying your phrases that have worked with you before, so that's cool. And I could go down a rabbit hole asking about watches versus agencies, and how that connects with how you go about business development. But let's focus on let's let's focus on professional services, because I think that's more of who our listeners are.

Charles Gaudet 3:35

Well, I can answer that just slightly, and then we can go into their professional development. So, you know, the funny thing is that, there is obviously from a positioning standpoint, it's critically important that people listening understand that, you know, business development starts with having a really defined niche. And so, there is, you know, we specialize in seven and eight figure companies, that just happens to be our niche, because it does require, you know, a different skill set, we just happen to fit that that market well. But when you look at the way that people do business, whether they're buying a watch, or they're doing a business and professional services, they don't all of a sudden say, You know what, I'm going to change the way that I do business and the way that I make decisions, because now I'm buying for my business, instead of buying for myself, personally, there's a lot of overlap, the, there are going to be some nuances. For example, if you're selling to an inc 5000 company and you're selling to the manager of an inc 5000 company, they're less concerned about how it's going to directly the product or service is going to directly impact them instead, there's other concerns like, you know, my job is on the line, if I make a decision, I could get fired. So there are other you know, nuances and influences. But, you know, by and large, the consumer journey, there's a lot a lot of similarities.

Susan Tatum 4:56

So, I want to I want to I want to tell you a story that I something I just went through, maybe this will wind up in the, in the podcast itself or not. But what you just said was, I think really applicable to what I've been thinking about because I was wandering through a mall, which is not something that I normally do. And I there was a woman that was giving away free skins samples, you know, so she sucked me into trying all this stuff, which and then which led me to a different person who said she was the owner of the company. And so she started, you know, they were gonna give you a facial and they start, you know, with showing you how this, it turned out to be a product and some lotion, stuff that you buy. But the initial buy in to do this, and she's like, Okay, you got it, you got to come in once a month, and you got to pay for all the months up front, and it's net, net net sale to $12,000. Okay, so she's anchoring high. I got that part. And then she starts bringing it when she's looking at us, you know, and she starts bringing it down. And I told her, I'm not going to buy anything, but I'm now I'm curious about what she's got the process that she's going to be following. So she, she she starts bringing well you know, face is not me, and it's my person that works for me, then it can be less and, and if so she gets it down to 9000, and then 6000. And then she starts piling up three products that I'm gonna get with it, and she's piling that up in front of me. And the whole time I'm thinking, okay, so you, you've done these things, you've thrown out all of these, like freebies, but you haven't mitigated the risk that I have. Which is that it's all on me. I don't know you. I don't know your process. I don't know if it's going to work. I don't know if it's going to hurt my skin. I don't know if you're going to be in business 12 months from now, after I pay for this. And then that really started me thinking about understanding what the customer what the risk is to the customer.

Charles Gaudet 6:47


Susan Tatum 6:48

So what would you in that situation? Because that's retail, right? How would you have handled that?

Charles Gaudet 6:53

In that professional services setting?

Susan Tatum 6:57

No, no, no, let's stick with retail for now. Because that because I'm just curious as to what your professional opinion would be of it?

Charles Gaudet 7:03

Well, especially nowadays, where the average consumer is looking at far more sources of information than they have in the past. And they want to look for the best and ensuring that they do the best. The more compelling offer you create, the higher your conversion rate. And you shouldn't be putting out a product that you don't believe is not world class, best in class, and so forth. So, you know, guarantees I'm a huge fan of. And when we create a guarantee for a company, we want the guarantee to be so bold, that the business owner that we're sharing this information with, they literally start squirming in their seat. If they're not squirming in the seat, the guarantee is not bold enough. And so you look at companies like Zappos

Susan Tatum 7:48

sorry to interrupt but you.. this person that's squirming in their seat is that your client?

Charles Gaudet 7:54

The CEO? Yeah, so. So this, the client of the, of the skin product company, or the CEO of the skin product company, if the CEO was strategic enough, would have put a guarantee on it that was so strong that for you, you'd say, well, why would I say

Susan Tatum 8:14

nothing to lose? Yeah.

Charles Gaudet 8:15

I got nothing to lose, especially if the company is taking on more risk. So a 15 day guarantee doesn't cut it 30 day guarantee, doesn't cut it. But if they actually said to you, you know, hey, look, Susan, I want you to try this. In fact, I want you to go through this process for the entire year. If at the end of the year, you don't look at the mirror, and you're not smiling ear to ear and honestly feel like you look 10 years younger, then by all means, you know, come back to us, we'll refund the product. And you know, so be it. The funny thing is, is a lot of people look at guarantees like that. And they say to themselves, Oh my gosh, I can't take that risk. That doesn't make any sense. But what they fail to realize will some people take advantage the guarantee? Yes. But the amount of conversions you'll get will offset any expense that comes with the guarantee. By and large. I'm sure there's gonna be some exceptions to the rule. When I first really started sinking my teeth into this concept, I was looking at Zappos when I was writing my book, Zappos was one of the people that I called because I didn't understand. I didn't understand how a company would pay for shoes to be shipped next day. And then allow me to keep The shoes for up to a year. And then if I return the shoes, they're gonna pay for the shipping to return the shoes. And then chances are, they're gonna have to throw out the shoes, I'm guessing. So I'm running the numbers through my head, like, I just don't understand how that makes any sense. And so I called the people over at Zappos and I explained my dilemma. And they said, here's the thing, because of our guarantee, we've been able to reach whatever billion plus dollar valuation in record time. And we've been able to create a situation where we don't have to compete on price. Our shoes are slightly more expensive than if you're just going to go down the street at like a footlocker or whatever else. But people are willing to pay a slight premium on the guarantee, and the amount of people that actually take advantage of it and abuse it is so small, it barely makes it on our balance sheet.

Susan Tatum 10:26


Charles Gaudet 10:27

And that change perspective for me, I said, I don't, you know, for professional services, we might have some hard cost of labor, but we don't have any stocking fees or anything. No inventory.

Susan Tatum 10:37


Charles Gaudet 10:38

And for, you know, for other companies like retail and whatnot, it's like, well, you know, what, if Zappos can do it a big billion dollar company that's giving people a year to try shoes, why can't we try something like that? We did this with another company, they were able to raise their prices, from $1,495 to $2,500, they did a one year guarantee plus $500. If for whatever reason, it didn't work out for him, they just had to prove that they that they did this stuff, their their return rate dropped way, way, way down below 2% versus a 15 day return period when they had a 30% return right? When they did one year went down to 2%. Sales went way up. We've done this with professional services.

Susan Tatum 11:18

Let's talk about that. Charles, what? I know we're off on a little bit of a tangent, but I love this. What for professional services? How do you how do you mitigate that risk?

Charles Gaudet 11:26

Awesome. We start with what's known, David Sandler came up with this, I want to make sure I give credit where credit's due what's known as a monkey's paw. And a monkey's paw basically says, let's say in professional services, you want to take people from zero to 100. In most professional services, there's usually something that has to start in the beginning. And so, you know, for a lot of our PPC, SEO type clients will say, What about some sort of audit? For technology clients? What about some sort of roadmap where you can put something together, you can charge a small fee right in the beginning, that allows them to understand like, here's what's going on, here's what it's going to look like, maybe they're drawing out schematics, maybe they do a full audit of the website, anything that they would usually have to do before they get started. And I'm not talking about like, a lot of the SEO agencies are like, oh, yeah, we do audits, we do it for free, I'm talking about something far more detailed with the 30 60 90 day plan, right? You know, in our business, we are monkey's paw, as we say, Look, you get started with us for coaching calls $2,500. If for whatever reason, you're not smiling ear to ear, at the end of the fourth call, we'll give you all your money back, there's no fine print, or whatever it is. And then from there, the majority of that people want to go on for ongoing coaching. But the burden of this of this falls on the small business owner, and that if you're going to give somebody a guarantee, especially a big, bold, hairy guarantee, you cannot sell somebody that you honest to God don't believe that you can add significant value back into their lives and their business. Because if you sell the wrong person into the product or service, you're gonna get a refund, but that's on you. If you sell the right person, and you're willing to put money on the line, that you'll be able to deliver a result. The odds of that person asking for refund go way down. I'll give you one more example. We have a client, he decided he wanted to launch a conference first time he ever did a conference. And he goes, You know what, Charlie, I want to make this the most expensive conference in the industry, even though it's my first one. I want to make it the most expensive conference in the industry. Perfect. He said, But how are we going to get people in the seats? I mean, they don't really know who we are just yet. We want to make this big. We're going to put a lot of resources behind it to try to sell as many tickets as we can. How do we get people put their faith in us? I say how much value do you think they're gonna get on the first day? says, oh, man, you know, at least 100,000 Maybe even a million dollars worth of value just with the nuggets and information that's going to be dropped. I said, Great, let's do $100,000 guarantee. He says what do you mean. I said, tell people that they have to show up, if on their first day, they don't get at least $100,000 with a value, you will not only refund their ticket, you'll buy him a first class plane ticket home. You know, as a result, and he sold out, he sold out that first year, he sold out the second year, he sold out the third year, that guarantee stays with them every time Guess how many people have taken advantage of the guarantee?

Susan Tatum 14:29


Charles Gaudet 14:30

None? Not a single person. But what got them there? In many cases was the guarantee

Susan Tatum 14:35

Yeah, absolutely. So what I hear you saying, and I don't know about the conference, but certainly with you're trying to get individual clients is that is that is it just another reason why you really need to be focused, and know who you want to do business with, and who an ideal client is for you and don't take on somebody because they wave some money in your face?

Charles Gaudet 14:58

And absolutely. And for real small business owners, they're used to saying yes to everything. Somebody says, I'll pay you to do this, even if it's outside of your core competency or outside of your, your target market. You're just like, Yeah, I'll take it, anybody who's willing to pay me, I'll take it. Yeah. But when you start being a little bit more strategic, and you take the risk away from people, then you're going to end up being far more intentional with who you sell. Now, this conversation is far more important that we're having this today than it even was just a few months ago, because there's a changing economic environment. And consumers are becoming far more discerning than they ever have been. Well, since 2020. And so a discerning consumer is going to is not only going to say, why are you the best, they're going to analyze the rest to make sure that it's worth the risk of them taking a leap of faith and doing business with you.

Susan Tatum 15:48

Which is exactly what I did with the retail place that I that I got drag into, like no.

Charles Gaudet 15:56


Susan Tatum 15:58

Should I be doing all this? So that's that that's, that's really very interesting. And good food for thought. Let's go back to talking about Well, let's talk about business development in general, for professional services firms. and kind of at a high level, what does it what's involved in that? What's the process look like for that?

Charles Gaudet 16:13

Let's start with the mistakes that everybody's making, and then we'll go through the process. So the mistakes are that people tend to say, you know, oh, you know, friend of mine is telling me that I need to build, I need to do paid media. So I'm going to do paid media, and maybe run it to a webinar, or maybe we're going to do Facebook, or maybe we're going to do all this other stuff. And the challenge, when you start off that way is you're paying the search engines to turn around and say, Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to pay you a premium to find my ideal client. And then you've got to write the ad copy. And you got to find the ad copy, that's going to get people to click and take action. And then from there, you take them to a landing page. And then you get to make sure the landing page converts, and then you get their their contact information, and you get to make sure that they end up getting on the phone with you. And that entire process increases your your customer acquisition costs or they say SEO but SEO is a longer term strategy. Because you don't just get on page one on day one. So we look at that as a phase three rollout. And all that stuff does work. But the phase three rollout for business development, we look at a phase one rollout. Phase one is when we do outbound, and now again, when people think outbound they go, Oh, okay, I've tried outbound before. I don't have to keep listening. I mean, I went to zoom info or some other lead aggregation software, downloaded 1000s of leads, queued them up into my email software program. Then I close my eyes crossed my fingers. And I didn't it didn't work for me.

Susan Tatum 17:50

That's a crap email that that was not relevant and very generic.

Charles Gaudet 17:54

Exactly. So then they're like, oh, wait a minute. I know It didn't work. I should be using LinkedIn. So then they buy a LinkedIn bot. They run it through connect with a whole bunch of people. And it's not until they get enough F yous that come back that they're like, maybe I'm damaging my reputation, I better stop. And so then they come to this idea that Outbound doesn't work. But it's not necessarily outbound that's not working. It's the process by which they're doing outbound. Susan, if you're baking me a cake and you forget to put sugar in it, is it going to taste the same.

Susan Tatum 18:31


Charles Gaudet 18:32

No. And if you're going to do outbound, but you don't follow the entire process, the way it needs to be followed, you're not going to get the result. And that process starts even before you send the first email. That process starts by doing what we call pre heating. And that pre heating is you take your targeted lead list, and you start by serving ads, retargeting ads to that lead list so that you become more known, they start seeing your brand over and over again, before you reach out, then you go to LinkedIn Sales Navigator, you create a lead list on LinkedIn Sales Navigator, and you're taking those prospects that you're going to be reaching out to. And you like, you comment, you engage with them, you start a conversation through the comments of their own posting and their blogs, if I write something to you Susan, and I'm like, Susan, this is great article. I particularly like how you called out that retail experience that you mentioned, you know, blah, blah, blah, you're likely going to reply back. And we start a conversation that goes on.

Susan Tatum 19:30

If I don't reply back, I would sort of be a dick, if I didn't reply back to what you said. But just getting on their radar of because I could say, Oh, will you send me a connection invitation or where I'm like Charlie I've seen him everywhere. He's been he's been posting, he's been commenting, he's been looking at my profile.

Charles Gaudet 19:46

And that's you just said the four magic words. I see you everywhere. The moment you get on a sales conversation with somebody and they say, Susan, I see you everywhere. You are so much further along in the sales process. And that's because number one, familiarity breeds trust. And so the more they see you, it's that familiar, familiarity breeds trust, but also, you know, the process of business development and closing a sale is in three stages, you have to create demand, capture demand, and close demand. And in creating demand, which is what we're doing through this entire process, we're following what's known as the laws of effective frequency, which dictate it takes 20 brand impressions to go from I don't even know who the heck you are, all the way through to, man, I want to work with you.

Susan Tatum 20:34

And, you know, when I way back when I was in school, studying marketing, that used to be seven, and it just goes up and up and up and up with all the noise.

Charles Gaudet 20:43

Yeah, seven has it and I was taught the seven too, and I don't know where seven actually came from, I think, you know, the the teachers have been saying that. I've heard that for so many years. And I believe that to be true until I got in the industry. And I learned that the most successful ad agencies in the world use a totally different formula. And if you think about it, as soon as I heard that, I'm like, Oh, my God. Oh, that makes sense. I mean, how many times have I seen the Goodyear blimp? Definitely more than seven?

Susan Tatum 21:15


Charles Gaudet 21:16

you know, if it was only seven times, and marketing would be a heck of a lot more efficient. But it's so noisy, and we're trying to create a brand and a brand impression. And this can go down a whole other, you know, rabbit hole, but it's about Share of Voice and the share space it takes in the brain.

Susan Tatum 21:32

So what would you say to a lot of our listeners are smaller businesses, and they don't have huge budgets to do, you know, to like to really pave the way that it ideally would be done.

Charles Gaudet 21:46

For sure.

Susan Tatum 21:47

How, what do you say to those types of business owners and experts?

Charles Gaudet 21:50

If you're targeting say, if you go through and you've come up with your list of say it's 1000 targeted prospects, even go bigger, say 10,000 targeted prospects? Do you have that list you go to, you know, you could go to like a zoom info, I like using a company called Task drive. It's a team of virtual assistants 10 bucks an hour. And they'll you tell them who your ideal client profile is, and they'll come up with a list. But they give you that list. You could go to ad roll and spend $2.50 a day and serve ads to just those people for $2.50 a day, you've got Facebook for a couple of bucks a day. LinkedIn is a little more expensive. They're about $20 a day. But if your average client is worth, you know, five, even six figures to you, it makes it worth it. The more narrow you are, it doesn't matter like it used to be. I mean, when I was a kid, you do business with anybody within like a 15 mile radius, right? Because we didn't have the internet we would have to drive to home or that drive to us or whatnot. But now we're in a global plan a global playground here. So we just have to pick a super, super tight niche and elimination, believe it or not as a growth strategy and if you could be the best in a micro niche. Efficient inexpensive, much easier for you to capture close. That's how you play on a on a limited budget. And we've worked with God knows how many six figure companies as well, that just happened to come to us. And we feel like we can make a big impact. But they have to niche if they're not willing to niche, there's nothing. There's very little we're gonna do with them.

Susan Tatum 23:22

So the the types of ads that you would be running on Facebook or LinkedIn or wherever, are they brand advertising? Or are they direct, like Legion take some action on this type

Charles Gaudet 23:33

brand, when it comes to preheating the type of audience that we're looking for, I don't care. If they're clicking on it, I don't care if they're taking action, what I care is that they see it over and over and over again, I want people to go to bed. And I want them to think about my logo, I want them to go might you know, my god Predictable Profits is everywhere. You know, I go to bed and I'm dreaming about this, what is going on here? That's what I want.

Susan Tatum 24:04

So let's move into the after you've warmed them up. And you're actually going to start some outbound some outreach through the outbound what, what is the process sort of that you follow, then?

Charles Gaudet 24:18

I like to use omni channel. So we'll use email. And there's a program that, you know, there's a number of different programs, LEM lists this persist IQ and so forth, that makes outbound a lot easier. But yeah, I like sending email, I like also being able to reach out on LinkedIn, I think that's important once you create that relationship. And then you know, depending on the size of your client, you know, you do a sequence touch point every couple of days, depending on the size of the client. If you have like six figure deals, we were working with a with an agency, that's a man, just if I could land this one law firm out in Kentucky, this would be really, really great. So he said, Why don't you print out all the emails that you've sent them that they haven't responded? That they haven't responded to before, print them out, put them in a FedEx envelope, with a little handwritten note that said, you know, tried to reach over email, tried good old snail mail instead, and and stick in and see what happens. About a week later, he calls me up and he goes, Charlie, you'll never freaking believe it that this guy called us back. And he's a client, six figure client from that one crazy little strategy that you just shared.

Susan Tatum 25:28

which was really just sort of being different without being obnoxious.

Charles Gaudet 25:33

Yep. Exactly.

Susan Tatum 25:34

I see so many people that try to break through the noise by creating more noise.

Charles Gaudet 25:39

Big mistake. And another way to break through the noise is to be specific, and, and relevant. So have you ever been on a sports game before Susan?

Susan Tatum 25:49

Of course.

Charles Gaudet 25:50

So you know, in a sports game, everybody's, you know, yelling and cheering, but it just sounds like a roar. It's undistinguishable noise. It's just one giant aaah - one loud noise. But let's say I see you in the audience. And I see you in the audience and 10 rows back. And then I yell, Susan, that will instantly cut through the noise, you're gonna stop and you're gonna look back. And outbound, the same thing happens. The very first line of your outbound email needs to be specialized, personalized in so that that email could not be received by anybody else. Except for them. Yes, email can be more can be more, you know, templated. But that first line has to be super, super, super hyper personalized, or it's you're not going to cut through the noise.

Susan Tatum 26:43

That's a really good way of phrasing it. I like that. So you know, I could talk to you for like hours, but we're running through our time, what kind of what kind of tips or advice could you give for CEOs, and business owners and even solos that are just sort of getting into this and starting to build a process?

Charles Gaudet 27:05

Well, the best piece of advice I give them is done is better than perfect. And I say that because the biggest mistake that I made back in the day is I kept trying to tweak it, tweak it, make it perfect. Take all these courses, try all this stuff. Try them and then I put it out there and, I wasn't get the response that I wanted, you just need to get data. So you know, you have to start so you can get data, you can see what's working, and what's not working. So get started. The second one is, you know, I would recommend that they seek some guidance, because there are some certain rules when it comes to outbound that you want to make sure you're doing things right. For example, like, when you're sending an outbound email, you don't want to use your primary domain. Because if you use your primary domain, outbound, let's face it, it does have a higher spam. More people are going to press spam than just if they had opted in to your list. So you don't want to damage your ISP, your your your, your your reputation, your domain reputation and get blacklisted. So you use an outbound only domain, something that if for whatever reason, that outbound domain gets blacklisted, that's okay. You know, you just started a different domain, it's no big deal.

Susan Tatum 28:22

So is that for if you're doing like marketing, sort of like email blast outbound? Or does that hold true when you're now down to the business development rep. Who is calling one on one to a bunch of people? Do you still wreck or sending sorry, sending the email? So you still have that same recommendation?

Charles Gaudet 28:39

I use my primary domain when somebody opts into my website, because they've opted in no big deal. I will use an outbound domain, when I'm actively reaching out to people that you know, that don't know me. You'll never blast outbound because that you will ruin your, your, your reputation. But, what you do is through a lot of the software that I mentioned, persist IQ or LEM list or whatnot, they'll trickle it out. They'll say, okay, you can send no more than 200 per day, but just let us know, which 200 and we'll space it out throughout the day for you. And that's how you would do it that way. So, take action, you know, seek guidance, and be hyper personalized. You know, really take the time, spend, you know, four to five minutes is all it takes either you go to LinkedIn profile, you go to their bio, you look at their website, find find something unique about them that you can call out so that they know that. All right, you took at least just a little bit of time to make sure that you know, I'm the right fit.

Susan Tatum 29:37

And you're human because you're doing something that a robot can't do.

Charles Gaudet 29:41


Susan Tatum 29:42

I think that's that's so key. Well, I'm Charlie, thank you so much for being here. It's really, really been a good conversation and very informative. So people that want to follow up with you, what's the best way to do that?

Charles Gaudet 29:52

Well, the best way is to reach out over at Again, that's predictable They can also find me on LinkedIn at Charles Gaudet g-a-u-d-e-t and connect with me there. Just let me know that you've been on this podcast and I'll accept it.

Susan Tatum 30:09

Awesome. Well, thanks again and take care.

Charles Gaudet 30:13

Thank you so much. My pleasure.


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