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  • Writer's pictureSusan Tatum

Market Research, Outlining the Story of your Business

Updated: Aug 4, 2022

with Matt Seltzer, Owner - S2 Research

Are you asking the right questions? Are you using the answers to those questions the right way? Matt Seltzer is a market researcher and strategist and owner of S2 Research. We are discussing his book The Creative Catalyst, and how the information inside can spark business owners to use questioning and market research to write the story for the perfect customer.

Notes from the Show

Marketing is a story; are you telling the right one? Matt Seltzer, market researcher and strategist, owner of S2 Research, and author of The Creative Catalyst: How to Create Better Marketing By Asking (And Answering) Better Marketing Questions, joins me to discuss marketing at its core and how to get it right.

The Creative Catalyst’s title was inspired by the notion that the answers to the big questions should be the catalyst to your creativity to implement more of what’s working. You never get marketing ideas without looking at data. Knowing what's working allows you to make the appropriate investments across the board.

Matt's strategy in marketing is that it is in fact a story, from start to finish, we’re trying to find someone who has never heard of us and make them a customer for life. Marketer’s don’t get to write the character of the story. They are real people that exist, but they do get to write the things they encounter. That’s what if. That’s the tentative answer to the big questions they ask. They revolve around the demographic of the consumer and the buyer.

Oftentimes the person you’re marketing toward does not have the buying power. They have the problem or the desire for the product, but it's not their money that’s being spent. This happens in situations where you’re marketing to children in the same way it happens in B2B sales. Matt has a great anecdote from the marketing expertise that is McDonald’s.

Matt’s advice for businesses that are not successful in their customer acquisition, is to just start. It starts by starting, then you need to keep going with the mindset of always improving. The best marketing asks the right questions and uses the most relevant data.

I definitely recommend Matt’s book, it's a great and quick read with a ton of information. We also talk about his second book in the works, so stay tuned for that!

What’s Inside:

  • What is marketing research in 2021 - and why do we need it?

  • How can we ask questions to direct and support marketing?

  • What Ronald McDonald can teach us about B2B.

  • The biggest challenge of data and research.

  • Tips on starting to incorporate research.

Transcribed by AI Susan Tatum 0:39

Hello and welcome back to stop the noise. I'm Susan Tatum and today I'm talking with Matt Selzer, who is a market researcher and marketing strategist. And he is the owner of S2 research in Las Vegas. And he is the author of this book where you can't see, it's called the Creative Catalyst for those that are not watching video. And I highly recommend it. It's a fast read, I got, I'm almost through and I just started it on Sunday, and this is Tuesday. So a lot of good stuff in it. Um, Matt, welcome.

Matt Seltzer 1:08

Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for digging the book, I really like to hear that.

Susan Tatum 1:13

I found it to be very helpful, because my.. came to the realization that my concept of marketing research is probably born out of the 1990s or 80s, or something. And it was more about focus groups or surveys or, you know, standing on the corner somewhere and stopping stuffing somebody as they walk by asking them a bunch of questions. And you with your writing. And the subtitle is this of this book is how to create better marketing by asking and answering better marketing questions. And it's very aptly titled, and you broke it down into the old who, what, where, when, and why?

Matt Seltzer 1:56

Oh, yeah

Susan Tatum 1:57

aspects of it. And so now, I'm gonna stop talking and let you dive into this a little bit about what your view of marketing research is.

Matt Seltzer 2:06

Sure. So it's funny you say that because in the last two weeks, I've literally worked on a survey, worked on a focus group and worked on an intercept survey where people are standing on the corner. So those are real things that are still in play today. There's also a lot of really cool stuff with digital and online, I could talk about that forever. But I'm a marketing guy. I mean, When I work in research. I'm a research guy, too. I love numbers. I love talking to people. But when I think about marketing, it's about that storytelling. And we've heard that from for years that, you know, marketers are storytellers. And where I always take that is, there's two pieces to it. One is, you know, how does someone become a person who's never heard of your brand, to a person who's kind of familiar with your brand, to eventually they become your customer, and then they love you so much that they stay your customer forever. That in essence is a story. And when you think about telling a story, this goes exactly what you said, and you go back to when I mentioned literature, classes I've taken and composition classes, to tell a complete story. You need to answer who, what, when, where, why, and how. And that's obviously how I structured the book. But the field of marketing designed to answer who, what, when, where, why, and how, literally, the field designed to answer questions is market research. And that's exactly it. This, these questions come up at every point in everything I've ever done in marketing. And I've worked in agencies I've worked in house. And again, that's the point of those focus groups in the surveys is to answer strategic marketing questions.

Susan Tatum 3:24

Well, what didn't click with me was that things like multivariate testing, and all that all of that sort of stuff falls into the market research category as well. I mean, you're seeing what works the best. I even spend some years owning a company that did that. And I still didn't get the we're doing market research. Didn't click with me.

Matt Seltzer 3:46

you know, it's funny, where you see market research really happen right now is in digital, and we don't call it market research. We call it data analysis, data science. And I think that's cool. I really think that's cool. Because what you're doing is you're taking a lot of data points and using them to answer questions. We don't think of it like that we call it click through rate, and A/B testing. But those are statistical modeling tests. Those are market research tests, they're the same thing that I would do with a survey, or with survey data now and do with digital data. But all we're trying to do is answer questions, answer them before we even have them. Or, and actually, this is my favorite part. The book is titled The Creative Catalyst. Because those answers when you look at your data, you look at your your click through rate as a result of an AB test and you say, Oh, the green button perform better. Well, that should be a catalyst to your creativity, to implement more buttons that are green, or test more buttons that are green and shades of green to see if you can optimize that further. But you never get those ideas, those marketing ideas without looking at the data. And that's again, the point of that's answering questions.

Susan Tatum 4:44

Well, then you somewhere I think you said you you also have to you have to ask what if?

Matt Seltzer 4:51

Correct. Yes. So that's, I'm actually trying to think I think I believe, that's chapter five, it's one of my favorite chapters. Because you think, again, about marketing as a story. So our job, we're trying to connect someone who's never heard of us all the way to make them a customer for life, I mean, that's the full game into the story chapter one through chapter x, you know, the end. And we always, as marketers, we don't always have control over the character in a story, you know, you think of an author, they can write whoever they want, they can create this character, but we're trying to talk to real people they exist. So we don't get to write that part of the story. But we get to write the things they encounter. That's what if that's for us to experience and it kind of ideate on. What if they first encountered us our brand by way of billboard? And would billboard work? Or what if they first encountered us by way of digital? What if they encountered us by digital and then we have a pop up tent in their office is step two. And these are extremes, but every one of them is us writing the story, us being marketers we're the, the holders of the pen. What can we create in this story that they will move forward. And what's interesting about that, I just finished a great book. And I do not remember the author's name. But the book is called go luck yourself. It's a marketing book. It's written by a wonderful agency owner who lives in the UK. But he gave a great analogy about marketing to golf. And he says, you know, the best golfers in the world don't have a lot of hole in one, you know, some, most of them have less than 20 in their whole career. In fact, the golfers do have the most hole in ones aren't considered the best in the world af golf, they're just trick shot, they can do the one shot, where professional golfers get really good is they don't take a shot for the hole every time they take a shot, aiming for where they want to take their second shot from. And if we tend to think of marketing as that way, that again, how do we get? I'm not trying to make you my customer today, I'm not going to try to aim for the hole, but let's get you out of the fairway. Can I give you a pamphlet? Or can I just introduce my brand through billboard or a digital ad or radio? And then once you're aware of me now I'm going to take my second shot of Hey, do you want to try a free sample? Or do you want to come into my storefront or visit my website and you start to see, we're, it's a path, it's a journey. And again, I always equate that to a story, but the golf one I liked,

Susan Tatum 6:49

oh, that's a great analogy. And I you know, it's um, you're you're talking sort of B2C examples somewhat. But in B2B, that's so important because we the data shows us that at any point in time, 85% of your market is not going to be in the market for what you've got. So you've got to get them there, you've got to hit them where they are, I think that gets. Now remember the golf analogy. That's a good one.

Matt Seltzer 7:14

Again, that was one that kind of blew me away. You know, I'll tell you, I'm b2b. And this is I'll tell you writing a book is kind of you get addicted, I'm slowly starting to outline the next book. But I'll give you a preview. And one of the chapter I'm working on is called what what Ronald McDonald can teach us about b2b. And it's an example I've used for years, but if you think about Happy Meals, and if I was to sell a happy meal, I'm going to tell, I'm gonna have Ronald McDonald there, I'm gonna tell it show kids the, you know, delicious french fries and the toy this week, and the kids are gonna want it. I mean, that's, that's an easy slam dunk sell. The kids have zero purchasing power in this conversation. And it's up to me as a marketer to remember that there's a second audience that I need to sell them, my son need to sell parents dinner, that's the second audience here, I need to sell them on buying my kids a happy meal. And we tend to think of b2b who's going to use most b2b purchases, it's it's actually the people who aren't making the purchase decision. And so here we are back again, where we can get people excited, and they want something. But the way I stress it's not their money, just like it's the kids, it's not their kids buying Happy Meals, it's not their money. B2B, we see this real life situation where a lot of people talk to frontline audiences. And we need to be talking to decision makers. But what's interesting is, you know, those frontline audiences have a say in the decision somewhere. And that goes back to that marketing strategy of what can I get people to say for me to that purchasing decision maker.

Susan Tatum 8:34

So your marketing through the users or the people with the problems into the budget owner or the Yeah, the decision maker.

Matt Seltzer 8:42

I found that for b2b to be a very successful strategy in the past for two reasons. One, you have that secondary audience kind of advocating for you and marketing which is just strengthen. But one of the biggest challenges in b2b is top down adoption in almost all situations. And this automatically increases kind of a bottom up adoption mentality, which is exactly what you want if you were selling software or selling services to a business, that every person that you're interacting from day one, interacting with from day one loves you, because if you sell to a CEO, which who is the purchasing decision maker, and again, I'll use my software example or a services example. And they tell their entire office that their entire 50,000 strong employee base nationwide. Okay, we're implementing this new thing you've never heard of. We already know there's pushback in b2b, we've seen that many times. Top up or bottom up, does not experience that.

Susan Tatum 9:33

Right? Yeah, that's, that's a very good point.

Matt Seltzer 9:35

we experience it less is the better way to say that?

Susan Tatum 9:38

Well, you know, when I think the, you're talking about marketing, it's also in sales important because, yeah, the CEO or the the C level people may make the final decision. But man, are they hard to get to?

Matt Seltzer 9:50

Oh, yeah, you got it.

Susan Tatum 9:51

You got to go with the best way in sometimes.

Matt Seltzer 9:54

and an employee base, is they have they have the CEOs here, or they have a better line of access. You're absolutely right. You know, it's funny, you mentioned sales. I think sales is cool, in the sense that b2b does not happen without sales. I'm a marketing guy, I love marketing. Sales is very vital in that world. At least I've always looked at it that way. But I say this, because it's my opinion that marketing's job should be to make sales as easy as possible for the sales team, that they're the questions are answered that leads are coming in, that resources are available. So when a lead or prospect has a question, marketing has created XYZ resource to help them again, make it as easy as possible. They really work, they must work hand in hand really well. And I've consistently heard that I'm sure you have across our entire industry.

Susan Tatum 10:41

And you know, I learned that in 1996, this is how I can how well it stuck with me and I was Global Marketing Director for a deep technology company. And I ended up I was hired by the vice president of sales. And I spent a year and a half actually working inside the sales team department. And it was such an eye opener about all the stuff that marketing was off doing that, you know that the PR and what the websites were getting stronger and stronger again, and at that time, and all of that stuff was like at the end of the day, what sales wanted was leads they wanted leads that were as to your point, conditioned to be ready to buy or ready to have that sales conversation anyway.

Matt Seltzer 11:24

And to that exact point. And I've seen this conversation, where marketing says and we're in a b2b context, okay, we, we put up ads in these print publications, and we put up these billboards and sale said, sales will literally say, Great, does that help my job? And you can make a case for it. And we can make an argument. But really, you don't want to have to answer that question. The answer should be demonstrable right away.

Susan Tatum 11:46

That's it.

Matt Seltzer 11:47

And if it's not, again, I'll go back sales, b2b won't happen without sales, at least on the broad scope. And maybe I'm generalizing, but I've experienced that

Susan Tatum 11:57

complex b2b

Matt Seltzer 11:58

complex b2b correct.

Susan Tatum 12:00

Transactional Yeah.

Matt Seltzer 12:01

Well, transactional again that's where the nuances and complexities of what we do come in, it's all an ecosystem. We're all trying to make business happen. And that's marketing's goal, at the end of the day is to facilitate that. And there's some really intelligent ways to do that. And then there's also spaghetti at the wall, which we've all seen, and I'll tell you what this you know, we all at least as a business owner, well, budget, you want to be strategic with everything. And thinking through the process. This goes again, back to research. But it goes back to the AB testing, I mentioned, the entire point of all of that is so you're not doing spaghetti at the wall that every time you do something, anything with your marketing, it was thought through, there was reason behind it. And then if it didn't work, you know why you can measure that. And if it did work, you can optimize that. But there's no guesswork. You're, you're doing science behind it.

Susan Tatum 12:49

Well, and you know, and I want to reiterate that point for, say any CEOs, company owners that are listening to this podcast, because knowing what's working, gives you the insight to make the appropriate investment decisions across the board throughout the company. But marketing, and certainly sales are particularly well set to be able to provide that, that data and the insight if they are they're given the right tools to do it with.

Matt Seltzer 13:16

That's correct. And you mentioned tools. That's probably the biggest challenge of data and research in general is okay you mentioned Survey way in the beginning. Imagine a survey report meaning you asked 50 questions and now you've got 50 pages of dense, we did a pie chart for every question. And we did you know, we answered all the questions, that doesn't help a marketing team. But the one page summary of all the insights that says, hey, 60% of your audience lives in these three states. That's where your marketing needs to be. And that may have been in one of those charts on page 47. But you need on page one, you need it in a creative brief, you need it in a presentation that you're giving to the sales team. So they know, oh, I need to go to those three states. It's not I mean, it must become a tool. Data for the sake of data doesn't help anyone. We have dashboards now. And I really like dashboards. dashboards be like an engaging, interactive form of the data. It must answer a question someone has, a great dashboard is this is your click through rate for this week. And you can click and say, Well, what did it look like at night? And you see, just nighttime, you see, oh, it drops. And you say, Oh, well, my that, again, as a creative catalyst, the answer to that question, it drops at night, maybe we should increase our spend on digital ads at night. And that's a hypothesis that you can test and measure and did click through rate go up at night, by increasing digital targeting, during these times. That's actually happening right now in digital data. It just can simply happen in all forms of media.

Susan Tatum 14:47

So Matt, for somebody, a business that's not really been great on measuring things.

Matt Seltzer 14:55


Susan Tatum 14:56

Where does it start?

Matt Seltzer 14:58

It starts, one by starting. And I say that because you got to start a lot of people hem and haw. And I would always rather just get out there, try something and figure out if you can retool it or retry another thing. So it starts by starting. But either way is, it starts by starting with the thing that you are comfortable with. I say this because I like surveys. I'm also a numbers guy. A lot of people aren't numbers, people. So with asking questions, or measuring simply starts with talking to your customers. And just every month you sit down with five of your customers, and just say, How are things going? And your measurement might be month to month, you gauge, did everyone sound a little happier this month? They're sad or more engaged. And that's loose, it's rough. But if that's what you're comfortable with, great, you've started something. Now, as I mentioned, retooling, let's say, you try talking to your customers for five months, we already kind of know this isn't statistically measurable, but you get a feel. And someone says, Well, what if we ask everyone on a one to 10 scale? In each one of those, how are we doing? And that's a simple easy type of data point that you can implement. And you're measuring something. And again, it's not as statistically sound, as I think some of the things that we've talked about are, but you've now tweaked it just a little bit. And then maybe down the line, you say, Well, what if we checked in with these people every week by an automated survey? And what if we built in some some extra tools, questions in those surveys? And then over time, what if we actually send it to our entire customer base at the end of every quarter instead of talking to these five people? And you see how a slow progression of just what out, what if we added one more thing. And some of these ideas may work out terrible for your organization or your team because your brain isn't there on data thinking. And you may say, okay, we need to bring in an expert, or maybe you say that's not for us. And what you end up doing is fine tuning over years a process that works for your organization. But the important thing is taking the pulse on that. It starts by starting and from there it goes by just always improving even if you think you have a great system, see where else you can improve on it.

Susan Tatum 16:44

You know, you almost said one thing that I think is really important is to make sure that whatever you're collecting the data that you're going to do something with it, I see so much. I see so much get asked, that just sits there, and nobody had any intentions of using it. And it just wastes the time of the people that you're trying to get good information from.

Matt Seltzer 17:07

And I recently got some advice from a mentor in research on surveys that actually you can even hurt your data by doing that, that there's a thing called survey fatigue, that maybe the longer the survey, the final questions aren't as truthful as the earlier questions. And so if you're not going to use a data point, don't if it's going to take you time, don't do it. You want to optimize things as quickly as possible. A great thing. If you could ask your entire audience, a two minute survey, I guarantee you're going to get the most truthful information possible because it's two minutes and you think well I can't do anything with a two minute survey. But do you think well you could build a profile in the database and you could ask a two minute survey every month and continue and and that's a thing. You know, inbound marketing or a teaches a stat with with just how we do sales, but if we were to do research the same way that you slowly tap into your audience take their polls, and you think a lot of companies already asked you to sign up for a rewards program. And they send surveys, just for their own customer feedback, which is very important. But you start to see where you could build these information portals to learn a whole lot about your audience. And, again, you see it in the book, the goal, I think of marketing really should be to connect people with the products and services they need. You're helping people. This makes that more streamlined. This makes sure what you're doing is relevant to that. Because again, if you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall, some of your ads and marketing are going to work and some won't. But you want to make sure you're relevant to your audience, because they especially hear it when you're irrelevant.

Susan Tatum 18:31

and ignore it.

Matt Seltzer 18:32

Oh, yeah. It adds to their impression of you.

Susan Tatum 18:36

Yeah. Not good for not good for your branding,

Matt Seltzer 18:38


Susan Tatum 18:39

So image and book and you alluded to a new book coming out. Earlier in the conversation, is there anything that you can tell us about it?

Matt Seltzer 18:47

So it's, it's got two titles right now I'm still working with deciding which one we're going to go down. One is why would they say yes, the other is called stick. Stick will definitely be within? Why would they say yes, if I, if that's the reason, but I love telling stories. And I think if anyone's read the book, you'll see that a every time I give the first book, every time I give an example, I tried to really give an example of, well, here's how Old Spice actually used audience personas to reach better customers. And they had 100% sales increase in a year. But I like stories, I really like stories. So stick is, I live in this really cool neighborhood in Las Vegas. And we're kind of in the middle of nowhere as well. Las Vegas is a desert, and they're building restaurants near us. And there's two restaurants that I really want. One is Sonic. And it's because Sonics drive in. And actually, we're a golf cart community and I want to take my kids in the golf cart aside. The other one is Jimmy John's, because if anyone's heard of Jimmy John's, they're freaky fast. And, and I'll stress freaky fast. I've ordered from them when I was in an office before. And there was one across the street, I'd order online and I would be eating the sandwich in nine minutes. I mean, that's pretty fast. I've timed it. I'm like, That's impressive. And I want them to put one in my neighborhood because now I work out of my home. And I would like sandwiches in under 10 minutes. And I stress that because both of those two rest reasons that I want those two restaurants have nothing to do with the food and their restaurants. And you think why would someone say yes? Why would someone want your product, it doesn't necessarily have to be that you're competing with all the other sandwich restaurants and all the other burger restaurants with the best burger. I never even brought that into the conversation. I like their stick, that you could build an entire thing off of that. With the whole concept of what I want to write about on the next one is is how we tap into people's brains. I'll tell you one great story that really inspired me to start outlining book number two, which were a long time away from this, it's gonna be slow pickings is why we have cash registers now in the United States, or I'm sorry, in the world, I'm sorry, excuse me. So do you know this story about the national cash register company? So I learned recently in the 1880s, the National cash register company came out. And they have a cash register. And its point is, it does two things. One, it keeps a lockbox which every business owner already has, they need to put their money in a lockbox. And it's a list of all your sales, it will keep track of them for you, which is we call that receipts now, but we keep track of your sales. And it was a disaster. No store owners in the country wanted it this started in the US. No store owners wanted it because it looked like an expense. And it was big and bulky. And they already had a cash box. And they already just wrote every sale down in a book and why do I need receipts? So what NCR did is created a special type of paper for the receipts that prints two copies, one for the owner of the store, and when that goes to the customer,

Susan Tatum 21:30


Matt Seltzer 21:31

and they ran an entire marketing campaign, a print campaign nationwide. That said, Did you get a receipt with that? And they asked every customer? What happens if you buy something and it breaks? Who's going to how do you prove that you bought it there, you should never buy something from a store unless you can get a receipt. So don't buy items without a receipt. And customers all of a sudden stopped buying unless they could get proof that they had purchased it. They wanted receipts all of a sudden, and the store owners had to comply. They all bought cash registers just for the receipts so they could provide receipts. And this started in 1880 that really launched in 1890. And by 1930, I believe again their books coming with research behind it. NCR was so big that they had a monopoly and had to be broken up as a company. So you just see the power of this mass marketing campaign. Why would they say yes? Why would business owners say yes to your cash register? It's because their customers refuse to buy from them without without it.

Susan Tatum 22:23

So they Yeah, they created demand through their customers customers. It's interesting. Yeah.

Matt Seltzer 22:26

I can't wait to tell that story in the next book.

Susan Tatum 22:29

So stick. Is it fair to say? And I think you actually did say this, when we were talking at one point that it's about figuring out what you're really good at? and sticking with it?

Matt Seltzer 22:41

Oh, yeah.

Susan Tatum 22:42

But if it's got to overlap with something that your customers care about,

Matt Seltzer 22:46

that's the values piece, you're absolutely correct. But you got to think why are you in, in this business, whatever business you're in, and then think, what can I be the best in the world at. And maybe that's a big ask. But I think if everyone thinks for just a moment, they could be the best in the world or aim for it to being the best in the world at something. I'll give you a, for instance, there, I love marketing. I'm a huge marketing guy. I know some brilliant marketers, I truly don't believe I could ever be the best marketer in the world. I do think someday I can be the best market researcher in the world. And that's really where I focused my career. And don't get me wrong. If I shoot for the moon and miss at least I'm above with the stars. And I was like that thinking. But that really comes down to it is I love this thing that I think I'm could be truly excellent at that can help an industry that I love, which is marketing. And, frankly, market research is my stick into marketing. Because I provide a very valuable service, I can deliver a sandwich in under 10 minutes is providing a very valuable service. What can you provide your audience that is a very valuable service. There's a great, great episode of The Office. I love the office, where Jim and Dwight go on a sales call. And they are they sit down with a client. And right away Dwight picks up the phone. For those who don't know the characters. They're two salesmen. You guys got to watch the show. But Dwight picks up a phone right in the guy's office and starts dialing some numbers? And he's saying real loud, seven, two, and his not really sure what he's doing. But meanwhile Jim's doing the sale, going conversation is going fine. And the client ultimately says, Look, your your prices are too high, the big guys have cheaper prices. And they said you're absolutely right. The big guys have cheaper price have better prices. But how important is customer service to you. And right then Dwight turns on the speakerphone you find out he's been on hold with one of the big guys this entire time. And he's talking to an operator the other machine saying Your call is very important to us. And Jim, the other salesman says and let me show you our customer service, he picks up his cell phone, he dials it a human answers. And they get the business.

Susan Tatum 24:45


Matt Seltzer 24:45

And that's it's exaggerated, but you think we're gonna be great at customer service. And maybe we can't compete on price. In fact, you you know, for a fact, you're too small as a business to compete on price. Don't create something that's worth that price. And if you think about it, you could do that in any category, maybe it's not customer service, it's delivery, maybe it's above and beyond. Be excellent at something that matters to your audience. And you're going to do a great job.

Susan Tatum 25:11

So speaking of excellence, tell us a little bit about how you work with clients what your work is.

Matt Seltzer 25:15

Sure. The what I would say first off is it depends how far someone wants me to take the ball. But I work with marketers and business owners, a lot of times that's agencies, a lot of times it's internal marketing teams. And then a lot of times it's business owners, we'll start by finding out what they want to discover. And all my projects, all projects for us to research my company, start with a brainstorm. This is internal, this is a core part of what we do. We sit down with the client, we learn what they want to learn. And I say that because that's very different often than what they've said they want to learn, we need to dive deep into it. And there's a process that we take with that. And from there, we develop a methodology, we go implement research. And that can be surveys that could be focus groups. We've done international focus group studies, we've done secondary research studies in the gamut. We take all the data, though. And then we come back and give a deliverable that matters to that original audience. So this is where I say how far do we take the ball? If it's an ad agency, and we work with a lot of agencies, sometimes our deliverable for a survey study or focus group is the creative brief, because that's what they need. They want to go and create a messaging strategy and a marketing strategy. They just don't know what to say. And we instead of going with our gut, we fill it with real answers from real audience members. Other businesses are looking for more of a turnkey marketing strategy. So we'll take the ball a little further, and we actually Will strategize a full one year plan of attack and sometimes is multi year of this is how you're going to introduce your brand. These are the tactics. This is the messaging and we'll work with different team members to bring that in as well. And it becomes a turnkey solution that someone can implement in their marketing or an agency then this happens sometimes can follow as a blueprint to implement a brand's marketing. So that's where it goes to how far does a brand need us to take the ball but it starts with asking and answering those questions we talked about.

Susan Tatum 27:00

So if somebody has a question that they're thinking about in their in their minds, for their business, is it okay for them to contact you?

Matt Seltzer 27:07

Absolutely. You can reach me at that's s like sam number two research dot com frankly, my email is Matt@S2 And I'll give you my cell phone number 702-494-8936. Genuinely I love talking marketing and research. If I can help someone give me a call.

Susan Tatum 27:25

Matt, thank you so much for being here today. This has been great.

Matt Seltzer 27:28

Thank you. I really appreciate it. This was fun.

Susan Tatum 27:30

We'll have to get you back and take care.

Matt Seltzer 27:32

Take care. Bye bye


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