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  • Writer's pictureSusan Tatum

Marketing and Sales, What’s the Difference

Updated: Sep 15, 2022

with Tyler Clark, Co-Founder Dream Firms

You can’t hit a target you haven’t defined. Tyler Clark is the Co-Founder of Dream Firms, a firm that helps accounting firms systemize attracting their dream clients. In this interview, Tyler shares the importance of niching your business, what the real difference is between sales and marketing, and the big C’s of The C4 Sales Script.

Notes from the Show

Tyler Clark is the Co-Founder of Dream Firms, a firm focusing on helping accountants systemize how they attract their dream clients. Many accounting firms do not prioritize a dedicated and trained representative for their marketing and sales team. Tyler shares the challenges that come along with this and his approach to generating the right business.

It is a rare occasion that an accounting firm hires a representative for marketing and sales to attract ideal clients. The challenge is that they try to wrap this position into one, creating a jack of all trades and master of none. Combining what should be defined as separate roles into one person working marketing, sales, and tech and often not doing a good job at any. Equally challenging are the risks with hiring a sales representative too early, Tyler emphasizes the importance of marketing first, sales second. An accounting firm should not hire a sales representative until their lead flow can equate to 20+ hours of sales weekly. Otherwise, sales reps may leave, wasting the time and resources used to acquire and train them or they hang on draining time and resources with a lack of sales to justify the expense.

Are marketing and sales the same? Tyler says definitely not, often these two terms get lumped together in both training and role placement but they should be looked at as two different steps. In Tyler’s words, marketing is everything it takes to get a hand raise and sales is turning the hand raise into a handshake. Marketing reaches those ideal clients, gets them into your corner to listen but nothing is confirmed and no money is made until a sale is complete.

Many business owners question, how important is a niche? Looking for your dream client, like Tyler's firm Dream Firms helps accountants do, it is necessary to identify who that client really is by getting specific. Tyler describes looking for clients without a niche with the phrase, You can’t hit a target you haven’t defined. There is a lot of noise out there when it comes to ads and marketing, and to cut through that you have to be relevant to someone. When you define your niche, get specific. Every time you get more specific, you spend less money and less time reaching the clients you want to work with. When you're a generalist, you don't make as much money, and spend way too much time and money working with clients who aren’t the right fit. But when you have a clearly defined niche you can train staff more efficiently, clients fit the model you’re prepared for, you save time, and you can make more money.

Dream Firms uses “The C4 Sales Script” a series of areas sales reps must adapt for explosive growth characterized by the four C’s.

  • Care - Self-care and caring for others.

  • Curiosity - Be fiercely curious about the client situation, prioritize asking the right questions.

  • Consulting - Create reciprocity with the client where they can see the value before they even agree to the sale. Prove you're an expert right away.

  • Certainty - “I know we can do this”, get comfortable with your script and the work you can do for your client.


What’s Inside:

  • Biggest sales and marketing challenge for accounting and other professional services firms.

  • Difference between sales and marketing.

  • The C4 sales script.

  • Why smart business owners pick a niche.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Transcribed by AI Susan Tatum 0:38

Hello, everybody, welcome back to stop the noise. I'm Susan Tatum and today I'm talking with Tyler Clark, who's the co founder of Dream Firms. And His specialty is helping accountants attract and will systematize the way that they attract and win business of their dream clients, which I love the focus on the dream clients. And Tyler, welcome. It's nice to have you here today.

Tyler Clark 1:03

It's a pleasure to be here. Susan, I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time and inviting me on I couldn't be happier to be here.

Susan Tatum 1:09

Awesome, awesome. Well, you know, given your family background and the experience that you personally have in generating business for accounting firms, I'm really excited about this, because I can't think of anybody that's in a better position to talk about sales and marketing and accounting firms. So you want to get on a hit on it just briefly, for any listeners that might not be familiar with your background?

Tyler Clark 1:34

Yeah, for sure. I, it's, it's a little bit of a weird story. I like to make the joke that there's never been a moment in my life where sales and marketing specifically for the accounting firm hasn't been a part of it. But essentially, my father started the first ever marketing consulting firm specifically for accounting professionals, known as new clients Incorporated. It's a 30 plus year marketing consulting firm, I'm a little over 30, myself, as part of his team, and was a five year growth consultant for new clients Incorporated, for I started Dream Firms. But even prior to that, my grandfather was a little bit of a what I like to refer to him as an accounting outlaw. He learned the craft of bookkeeping coming up through the ranks, he was served proudly in World War II, build up a million dollar firm and pioneered many of the common more common pricing and marketing strategies in the market today. And was very successful at doing so and use my father as a sales rep, which was also somewhat revolutionary at the time, the idea to have a dedicated sales rep for an accounting firm, my father started his own accounting firm, Danny started New Clients Incorporated, I was born and now we're here with three firms, and really the next generation of marketing and sales systemization for the accounting profession.

Susan Tatum 2:55

So I have a couple of questions that came out of that one, and one is, so with all this background, what is the biggest challenge that you see for these accounting firms now?

Tyler Clark 3:06

you know, I think it's similar to what a lot of individuals go through when they are a very, very gifted technician, right, whether it's an auto mechanic, whether it's an accountant, whether it's someone who's good at potentially Facebook ads, and now they're looking to make this transition into the entrepreneurial role. They start wearing all of these different hats, and if they're not familiar, specifically, with marketing, or sales, that really makes the growth journey very hard, especially when you're trying to replace that income in the first year, two years, and going out on your own. And so there's so many things you have to learn in such a condensed period of time to become successful as an entrepreneur. And I find that, you know, specialized knowledge is very, very important to being successful in in any category, but definitely for an accounting professional. And, and that's something that I think is, you know, sometimes not as appreciated as as it ought to be early on, and then they realize they don't know what they don't know. And they need help. And that's ultimately what we looked at.

Susan Tatum 4:14

So you, you mentioned that, I think it was your grandfather's firm, your father was the first dedicated sales person for an accounting firm. Do you find that that's still pretty much the norm? Do they have dedicated salespeople?

Tyler Clark 4:30

I'd say it's more common. And the reason it's more common is my father really started to say, hey, you know, you need to create delegation and leverage, look at what my grandfather did with me. And you can we can teach you how to hire and train a sales rep. And that was really their, their bread and butter for a long time as they would go in. And they were essentially, you know, for lack of a better term headhunters on behalf of accounting firms to go and get qualified sales reps, and place them inside of their firms to then go and do the selling on behalf of the accounting professional. So that that was definitely something that wasn't very common. It's still not very common today at all. I mean, I would venture to say easily 95% of all accounting firms do not have a dedicated marketing or sales representative and I would break those out into two different roles. I think one of the one of the major problems a lot of firms will make is they try and have a jack of all trades master of none too early. They want a salesperson and a marketer and a tech person all in one and really you Want to have the specialty that that you need at that time as opposed to trying to find this, this unicorn that just doesn't exist?

Susan Tatum 5:39

I agree, I totally agree. So let's define with the differences between sales and marketing.

Tyler Clark 5:42

Absolutely, this is one of my favorite topics because they get merged together all too frequently. So marketing, to me is everything that leads to getting someone to raise their hand, sales is going from hand raised to handshake. So that's the mental image I like to create is like, hey, I'm interested, you're talking to a room of people, right? Whether it's through the internet, or of course, you know, actually more analog approach where you're doing presenting in front of people, or whatever the case may be. And a portion of that audience is going to say, hey, this, this applies to me, I'm interested, this sounds interesting. And then that, of course, is a book appointment, potentially an email address, I typically count a successful hand raise as only a booked appointment, that's the end result of marketing is, you now have the opportunity to move them into a sales conversation, everything before that is of course beneficial, building your email list growing your social following, all those things matter a lot, I'm not downplaying them. But the whole purpose of those is to get to the end result of a raised hand or book call. And then sales, of course, is the actual conversation to elevate them from interest to an engagement.

Susan Tatum 6:53

So is what I see, I'll say in the technology industry, because that's where I originally came from, has been a movement of so there, there's inbound, which, you know, marketing can be a lot, I think, I think of marketing is one to many, and sales is one to one. So you've got most of marketing is trying to get this inbound. And but somebody somewhere, at some point generally has to do some outreach, or prospecting based on that's my dream client. And we're going to go after these people, or we're going to we're going to try to do business, see how we can help these people. So I see to go back to the tech industry, that has been shifting into marketing, some some sometimes they call that marketing, sometimes they call that sales. It is an area where it overlaps, though, isn't it?

Tyler Clark 7:46

Yeah. I definitely agree

Susan Tatum 7:51

have an accounting. Sorry.

Tyler Clark 7:52

I didn't mean to cut you off. I thought I thought there was a question there. But the way I the way I look at this is that I agree with your one to many and one to one approach, both in the sales and in the marketing area. You can sell one to many, you can market one to many, you can also market one to one and you can sell one to one, right? What we're doing right now is not necessarily a sales conversation, right? I'm not here to sell you, you're not here to sell me, we're not trying to even sell your audience on anything. This is really just more of a broad brand awareness, marketing conversation to hopefully ultimately build goodwill and share insights. And so that, to me, is a one of many approach for marketing. And the same thing is true for sales. When you're in that webinar environment. When you have a really good website that has a high converting rate, like you can sell a lot of people simultaneously. So you don't need to have that one to one approach. But in that one to one sales conversation that is, of course in a one to one environment.

Susan Tatum 8:51

So for four accounting firms, do you see is there one that definitely comes before the other marketing first and then dedicated sales?

Tyler Clark 9:02

I would say that, I think that there's a, it can be too risky to hire a sales rep too early in a firm. And what I mean by that is up when I said you don't want the unicorn jack of all trades, to say, Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to build the systems and I'm going to be your salesperson, I'm going to I'm going to do all that it's a great promise. But I believe the reality of that is is harsh, and cruel. And I and I say that because I want I want the specialist to do something really well. And I want that specialist to sell really well. And so I believe it's incumbent upon the firm owner to have enough of a lead flow to at least get to 20 hours a week of quality sales. And then you look at that and say, okay, the owner needs to buy back their time at a discount. Yeah, you're gonna lose a little bit theoretically on the margin, but the salesperson might close more deals, they might close them at a higher price point. So you're probably not going to lose much. But you do win back 20 hours a week. And then if you take those 20 hours a week and you know, reinvest that into various aspects of your firm, that's a big win. And then yeah, the sales rep is still going to need to fill the other 20 hours with a one to one following up on prospects that didn't convert starting to build up their own pipeline. There's still time they have to fill in some capacity for marketing, but I don't think Like the problem is, is if it's an 80 20, split and 80% of their time is spent prospecting, only 20% of their time is spent selling, that's going to end up creating a really bad situation for the firm, because that rep is either going to leave. And there's a lot of time and money invested into getting them there. Or they're just going to hang on and kind of siphon too much income from the firm and the owner, and it's going to create division. And I think there's just too much risk involved in that too early. So I look at it as get your marketing in line first. And once you've got enough opportunity that you need to literally say, whoa, whoa, whoa, then you should be transitioning into looking into hiring and training a sales representative.

Susan Tatum 11:08

You know, that'll make sense. I think the other thing, Tyler is that without marketing, so, so accounting is certainly a high trust. relationship. And once you get beyond people that you know, personally, and you're trying to expand your business, without marketing, it's hard to build that trust, really hard. And that becomes, that becomes glaringly obvious, when you see sales that have been great working for known companies and known brands, and then they go to work for a lesser known company, and the doors are all close to them. It's stuff.

Tyler Clark 11:57

It is and that's fundamentally what the purpose of marketing marketing is, is to accelerate the trust building process. I mean, yeah, you know, it's, it's not as difficult to be able to, you know, tap your immediate circle, and maybe get a book of business, you know, couple 10s of 1000s of dollars, maybe six figures, if you've been pretty good at overall just networking throughout your, you know, college and through your career, and you've got that professional background, or that professional network to help support you when you do go out on your own. But once that's done, you're pretty much just sitting waiting around for referrals if you don't actively invest in marketing, and I literally just finished a presentation earlier today that was specifically about that it's, you know, referrals are great, trust me, I love referrals as much as anybody else. They're an incredible compliment. It's a great growth engine. It's a great marketing system, too. But it's one system. And if you're just waiting and relying exclusively on one marketing system, whether it's referrals, whether it's SEO, whether it's one system, it's it's not enough to reach ambitious growth goals, and you just need to be willing to diversify. And ultimately, expedite the trust building process by being more being seen more frequently. Right? That's that's fundamentally how you build trust.

Susan Tatum 13:13

Yeah, that's true. Um, so one of the things that we talked about, when we talked earlier was about the importance of niches and being focused. And you spoke about dream clients, which I think is an important part defining who those folks are. Let's tell me a little bit more about your, your views on that.

Tyler Clark 13:35

Yeah. So this is a This to me is very much the the foundation upon which a successful marketing effort is built. This is the this is the pouring of the concrete this is you can't you can't do anything without a solid foundation. And you also can't hit a target you haven't defined. And so what I've, what I've realized is that there's only really one term that matters in marketing, and it's relevancy. If I'm more relevant to you and your situation, the odds you will want to work with me go up, the less relevant I am, the less likely you are you are willing to work with me. So that means I will have to spend more time and more money. So for instance, if I'm, if I'm an accounting firm owner, or any business owner, for that matter, and I say, I work with small businesses. Right, that's, that's about as broad as you can get. And then if you maybe say, Well, you know, I work with small businesses, but professional services, it's like, okay, cool. We cut the market in half. We it's like retail and professional services. It's like, that's a tiny bit better. But it's really not that much better. And my point is, is that we're the market is so and your podcast is the perfect name, right? Like stop noise. Like, there's so much noise out there. So how do you really cut through that? And speak to somebody? How do you get them to listen, when we're getting bombarded? I saw a study, it's, you know, average American sees like three 4000 ads a day, a day. It's crazy. It's crazy to even think about that. And then you go, Well, how do you break through that? To actually get someone not only to just listen to you, but want to invest with you, which is the next step? And that is relevancy? Like if I'm relevant to you because I say no, no, no, I don't work with anyone other than specifically entrepreneur accountants really micro accounting firm owners. That's that's even a you know, it's even more niche for us than that, like, we get really specific. And I find that every time you get more specific, your relevancy goes up, you spend less time less money. And ultimately you get more of exactly what you're looking for. And that's, that's not by chance. That's a strategic decision and choice that you have to make. When you're getting to roll out any marketing strategy or tactic. It's hoo hoo hoo, how specific can we be. And I just want to put a quick shout out to one book, in particular, if anyone's looking to get really deep into premium pricing, but also the importance of a niche $100 million offers by Alex Hormozi is excellent, excellent book, I can't recommend it enough

Susan Tatum 16:15

I have a copy. I've read it. It's It's some good stuff. Yeah, it's good stuff. I was so in my, in my work, I'm right there with you on a soapbox about how you've got to focus, you're not going to get through the noise, and not be ignored. Humans are really good at ignoring things. We fed a lot of practice, like you said, with a 3000 ads we ignore every day. But I find that business owners get can get really, I'm gonna say scared or hesitant to do that. Do your clients do you see that with the accounting firms as well?

Tyler Clark 16:55

Oh, for sure. I mean, I think that this is the most common problem that I run into when I when I talk about this concept. And it's but but the size of the pie is smaller, right? That's the that's that's the primary source of the fear is that by saying I only do this, what happens when the realtor comes to me and I say I only work with breweries, what happens when this person wants to come and work with me. And you know, everything online and everything I say now says I only do this or what happens to my legacy clients, all my network of colleagues and friends that I you know, I've been working with for years, and they're not in this niche. What what happens now? And you know, I don't want to go too deep down the wormhole on this on this. But the truth is, is that when you make the pie smaller, right, let's just go ahead and pick like law firms, for instance, that's a that's a very common niche selected by accounting professionals. And I've got many clients that successfully have positioned themselves in that category. And so the first thing is, is how could multiple professionals get positioned in that category, and not be at each other's throats? In my own community, and all crushing their growth goals year over year? Like, how does that even make sense, because the size of the pie is enormous. Even when you cut it down to such a specific niche, we're talking about a market that's in what hundreds of billions of dollars year over year, you throw a rock excellent, then only going to hit two lawyers in the head. So I again, I think that there's just so much opportunity and, and we have these blinders on that it's like I need to serve everyone and everything. And when you're a generalist, you just don't make as much money. And quite frankly, you spend way more time and money than you have to in marketing and you end up with less quality clients overall. So at least try it. Like, right, what a serious effort to it and then make an informed decision on it.

Susan Tatum 18:49

Well, then you're not telling them they can't work with that realtor that that comes knocking at the door, just saying focus your efforts. On on who you bring in.

Tyler Clark 18:59

Thank you that thank you. Exactly. And what's fascinating about that is they realize, and this is the this is the secret sauce is they realize that they don't even want to take those people after a certain time period. They go what I'm so much more profitable on these clients, I can train my staff more efficiently. I don't have to go and learn another, the intricacies of another industry, these people take up more time because of one reason or another. They don't fit the model that I have created now. And so while it might seem appealing in the beginning to say, Oh, I'll take this one off person that is no not inside of my niche, which happens and can still work and be profitable in certain instances. In the long run. They increasingly just keep saying no, that doesn't make sense anymore. Because it's not my vision, and it's not what's working the best for me. So I completely agree you can take that. But people realize that it's not worth it after a couple of months.

Susan Tatum 20:00

Yeah, that's what those are the ones I usually regret. The ones that I I know I know, my gut that it's wrong.

Tyler Clark 20:09

Always listen to your gut always.

Susan Tatum 20:12

I think you're right. Well, so tell me you've got this see for sale script that you came up with, right?

Tyler Clark 20:18

Yeah, absolutely

Susan Tatum 20:19

So tell us what that is,

Tyler Clark 20:20

yeah, so I'm a big believer that scripts are meant to be a form of how a successful salesperson, which to me is the transfer of emotion or belief between one person or another. And so when you're trying to hire a sales rep, or when you're trying to just get someone to be proficient at sales, a very good sales rep is essentially someone who has great empathy. And being able to take that and boil that down into a script is just saying, if you follow these principles, you'll be able to have the characteristics of a good salesperson. And so our C four sales script is, is meant to be reflective of that. And C four, of course, is a play on explosive growth. That's that is the the mentality there. But the four C's are what I consider to be the must have areas that a salesperson must be willing to adopt. So the first one is what I refer to as caring, caring for someone else and self care, right? I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of Aristotle and the importance of love. But if you don't love yourself, it's really hard to love somebody else. I would argue it's the highest form of love, but neither here nor there. So self care is the first thing and then caring for others is a branch of C one caring, right? You got to genuinely care about the other person and wanting to help them especially in the service space, right. Like, that's fundamentally what we do is we take care of other people's problems.

Susan Tatum 21:50

I think it's critical. I think you can't Yeah, there's nothing without that if you if you don't have that you're just a sleazy salesperson. Ram something down their throat.

Tyler Clark 21:58

Exactly. Exactly. And so the the second part of this is that the second C and C four is curiosity, right? I want us to be fiercely curious about that person situation, what the problems are what they've tried before. What if they understand the ramifications of their decisions? Right, there's so many great questions. And that, to me, is the root of an excellent sales presentation is so once you understand you have to care, it's like the next part is just got to be really curious. And if you're really curious, that does most of the heavy lifting for you. And it also builds a tremendous bond with that other person. The third C is known as consulting, right. And so there's the there's this weird, you know, there's this weird, I guess, methodology that's been pushed a lot in the accounting space in particular, which is, you should never give away any free information on the phone. And I just vehemently disagree with that you shouldn't give away the farm, right? You shouldn't give away all of your advice. And if many times giving away any advice too early is like almost malpractice. It's like prescribing medicine, when someone's like, I've got a heart problem. It's like, well, here's the solution, like no, we actually have to understand a lot more before I even say anything. And that comes back to curiosity. And so my point with that is that reciprocity, to me is the single biggest, important piece of human psychology. It's, it's literally what separates man from beast, if I'm, if you're hungry, right, and you're like, right, right, back in the day, it's like, oh, you hungry, like, here's a chicken, right, but you give me some chicken later, right? Like you're gonna pay me, that's what this is about is we want to fit, we want to create that reciprocity so that when you ask them to be a client, ideally, by the end of the call, they can already see the value, they already appreciate that. So having that consultative approach where you're willing to give that meaningful piece of advice and guidance to me is, is again, very, very important as a part of a sales conversation, because they have to know you're an expert. And you have to prove it in some way, shape, or form. And just to round it out on the fourth one, and then of course, you know, any, any questions or feedback, I'd love to hear it. The fourth one is certainty. And this to me is definitely the hardest part of the C for sales process and just business in general, because we our own biggest critics, we self doubt, we question our prices, we question our results. And that's normal. Up to a certain point, I like to make the joke that confidence is for children and certainty is for entrepreneurs. I love my guidance counselor, he helped me be a very confident young man. But now that I'm an entrepreneur, my clients aren't looking for I think we can do this, it's, it's, I know, we can do this. And that there's a big difference between those two things. And once you get into the pricing part of your sales conversation, the worst thing you can do is fumble the ball at the one yard line. So you've really got to just work on having that that part of your presentation, your script, just really, really get comfortable with that piece. And I find that when people follow that just a simple four part process. They crush, right. It's it's not a hard thing to do. If anything, it's innately in all of us. It's just organizing in that way.

Susan Tatum 25:10

You know, and I think also being understanding that it's okay to do these things, you know, because I think a lot of people have in their mind this this bad feeling about sales and sales people. And if you don't think of yourself as a salesperson, if you are you're not selling, you're helping as as trite as that might be it and you approach it that way it makes all the difference in the world. And the person on the other side can can tell that very, very quickly.

Tyler Clark 25:43

Yeah, again, it's very easy to feel when something is inauthentic. And again, that comes back to certainty. It's like, if I'm not sure that I'm the right fit for you, not only will it be clear, I may as well just simply announce it. But if it is a great fit, I'm going to make sure that we know that this is a great fit, because I believe in it. And again, that comes back to me like the definition of sales is the transfer of emotion and the primary emotion that I want to transfer to you is belief, I believe that this is exactly what you're looking for. And that should be radiating from you and not in like a you know, we do no high pressure sales, we do nothing like that. But at the same time, we have to be willing to just understand what are the steps that need to happen for us to move forward. So as long as we can identify those things, and be willing to ask the questions that lead to that, that that clarity, I don't find that sales is something that's dirty or sleazy. It's it's we're just trying to help you. That's it right.

Susan Tatum 26:44

Yeah. So one thing that you talk about the consulting part of it and the reciprocity, you're in the accounting industry, the sale what you're calling salespeople, are they full time salespeople? are they also accounting professionals that are do have some expertise.

Tyler Clark 27:04

So my father who really again pioneered, you know, the idea of a dedicated sales rep on behalf of accounting firm, he had a pretty, pretty hard and fast rule that the less the sales rep knows about accounting, the better. And I'll preface that by saying nobody wants to technobabble right? And this applies to software sales discipline, we're buying the result, we're buying the destination, we're not buying the TSA check in line, and the pain in the butt of buying plane tickets and, and the routes and the mileage and we're not buying those things, okay, I'm buying the sandy white beach, the pristine tax return the tax savings, the clean dashboard, the financials that let me know how profitable I am. That's what I'm buying. And I don't need, I don't need a sales rep to know even a fraction of what the accountant does, if anything, that's beneficial, because now you've created a little bit of distance between the expertise of the accounting professional, which is really what they want to buy, right and the prospect. And in order to get to that, there is a process that that person must now go through, which of course, is what the sales rep is trained on. So yeah, I mean, I look at it as very much just, I think it is almost dissident, I want them to know enough to be dangerous, I just want to clarify, they shouldn't know nothing, nothing. They need to know what they're selling. But they also don't need to know the nuanced technical details, which a lot of accountants will fall into and lean into is as if that is something that is valuable, when in reality, it's confusing and a confused mind as an indecisive mind.

Susan Tatum 28:40

Absolutely. So do you think that that approach follows through, let's say, to a marketing business like yours to if if you had a full do you have? Do you have a full time business development person? Or rep? Or are you doing the ring making?

Tyler Clark 28:57

very soon, that so I did have one for quite some time. And, you know, I, I had a shift in my business because, you know, not to get too too in the weeds with with my own, you know, my own endeavors. But I ran into a capacity issue, which happens, right, you know, you can, you know, you can have sales reps who sell themselves out of a job. And you can also have an owner who hasn't set up the proper structures from a fulfillment perspective so that they don't burn out. And as a coach, there's only so many relationships you can realistically manage before it becomes too much. And I hit that point, and, and, you know, things things went the way they did, but right now, We've restructured things to a place where I feel much more comfortable with with having a dedicated sales team, as opposed to a singular rep. But the answer is I don't have one right now, but I will very, very shortly.

Susan Tatum 29:54

And what would you look for in the those people? Do you expect them to have good marketing expertise or?

Tyler Clark 30:00

No, I expect them to have no marketing expertise. To be honest. I expect them to be great salespeople and a great salesperson to me is someone who's fiercely curious and ultimately cares about the other person on the end of the line. I've interviewed hundreds of salespeople and it's very quick to tell who's in it for a buck and who's in it for relationships? So, you know, it's it's hard to find good salespeople, I think it's probably the hardest position to hire for. Because these people are making promises on behalf of your company and your brand. And those promises have to be ethical, they have to be in line with ultimately what you're capable of providing. And, you know, it's it's a hard thing to train for, but it's definitely something that I look for on the front end.

Susan Tatum 30:46

I, I could talk to you for hours more about that topic. And I think it would be a good conversation. But I think we're about to run out of time here. This is, and this has just been great, Tyler. It's everything I hoped it would be. And I appreciate your being here. How do people follow up with you?

Tyler Clark 31:03

So we're pretty, pretty, pretty good at that whole social thing. I don't know if anyone's heard of a thing called social media. But obviously, that's, that's where we got connected. Susan, you got it, you've got a great social game as well. So everyone, please make sure you're following her on all the respective platforms that she's on. But for us in particular, we've got a growing YouTube channel. So if you're, if you're ultimately an accounting professional, and you're looking to up your game for free, we release free trainings, literally every single week on YouTube, just type in dream firms will be the first channel that you see, be sure to subscribe. I've got a LinkedIn profile. I'm very active on Tyler S. Clark is like, I don't like to say like, like Spencer, that's my middle name. Just say like that. And then we've got a free to join Facebook group, The Proactive Accountants, Facebook community, just type in The Proactive Accountants in the Facebook will come up first right there got over 4000 members in there as of this podcast, and growing every single day, hope to add a couple more as a result of this awesome opportunity.

Susan Tatum 32:06

Awesome. We'll put all those links in the show notes to in that Dream Firms is one word, right.

Tyler Clark 32:11

Doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter But But yeah, we we tend to space it out, when we're not looking to do SEO specific things and tend to merge together for SEO specific things, which is a whole another conversation

Susan Tatum 32:26

Interesting. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you again, very much and have a great day and we'll talk soon.

Tyler Clark 32:36

Absolutely. It's a pleasure. Thank you so much.


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