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  • Susan Tatum

Marketing: Copy Versus Content

with Vanessa Green, Owner Greenlight Content



Knowing your audience, aligning copy with your business strategy, and blending message and design are just some of the topics Content Marketer and Copywriter, Vanessa Green of Greenlight Content covers in this episode. She shares her journalistic approach to marketing that ensures clear, engaging, and aligned content and copy.


Notes from the Show

Vanessa Green of Greenlight Content focuses on Content Marketing and Copywriting for small businesses. But what is the difference?

Copy is persuasive writing, trying to sell something and attract clients. A copy can be found on a website landing page, email marketing, and even social media captions.

Content is educational. This is where businesses can offer free value. Content is most often found in blogs where a business can explain and teach the purpose and value of their service or product.

Vanessa has a unique approach to marketing….market like a journalist.

-Ask the right questions

-Do the research

-Think about the audience

-Consider case studies and social proof

When you get to know the company and ask the right questions you will end up with better-quality content. How much time should a business owner expect to devote to a copywriter's research? Vanessa schedules one 90-minute call, she does all the asking. For the best content and copy, the information should come straight out of the business owner's head…she, as she says, will "pull out the golden thread".

Reaching your audience, getting quality marketing, and great copy…is not all about words. In fact, words mean nothing if the alignment and design aren't there, and vice versa. Vanessa explains how to blend message and design to portray the business strategy, even when the designer and writer don't communicate.

You can find out more about Vanessa Green via her LinkedIn, Email, or by checking out the Greenlight Content website.


What's Inside:

  • The difference between copy and content.

  • Why you should approach marketing like a journalist.

  • Should you consult clients during content research?

  • How much time should a business owner commit to their copywriter?

  • The importance of blending message and design.


Mentioned in this Episode:

Vanessa Green - Owner - Greenlight Content | LinkedIn

vanessa@greenlightcontent.ca

Greenlight Content

Greenlight Content on Instagram


Transcribed by AI Susan Tatum 0:35

Hi, folks, welcome back to stop the noise. Today I'm talking with Vanessa Green, who is the owner of Greenlight content. And she's here with some really interesting ideas and useful information about working with copywriters. Welcome, Vanessa.


Vanessa Green 0:49

Hi Susan, how you doing?


Susan Tatum 0:51

I'm great. Thank you. Thank you for being here.


Vanessa Green 0:53

Yes, thanks for having me


Susan Tatum 0:54

Before we get into my list of questions, why don't just take a few minutes and tell us sort of a little bit about your background and what it is that you do at Greenight?


Vanessa Green 1:04

Sure. So I'm actually a former journalist, I used to work at Yahoo back when like Yahoo was a thing that people use, I worked there in Canada, and then I worked there, I moved to the UK works in London, at Yahoo. And then I moved agency side and started working at and focusing on content marketing. So I would run content campaigns for clients that I worked at a couple different agencies there, then I moved back home and opened up my own shop. So I've been doing this for two years now. And I'm really focused on doing sort of content marketing and copywriting for predominantly small businesses. So helping them with their strategy, and then execution on things like lots of website projects. So kind of optimizing their websites, I help with blog posts, case studies, I do like sales literature, email marketing, really kind of any sort of copy or content they need for their for their business is where I try and help out.


Susan Tatum 1:52

So I hear you making distinguishing between content and copy. What is the difference there?


Vanessa Green 1:57

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I run a workshop where I try to explain the difference, because they do have sort of two very different purposes. So copywriting is really to persuade someone to take action right to buy now or to sign up or you know, register for a free consultation or an audit or, you know, whatever it may be whatever offer you have. So that's things like your landing page copy, website copy, you know, even your social media, captions can be considered copy, email marketing, anything that's promotional, so where you're trying to get someone to, like take action, content marketing, on the other side is like more around education, inspiration, you're really trying to kind of inspire people. So it's more about trying to inform them versus getting them to like, buy something or take an action. So like a blog is like probably one of the best examples of content marketing, where you're really just trying to educate your audience about a certain topic related to your products or services. So like, an example I give is, if you sell office equipment, maybe you have a blog post only, you know, 10 things you need to know before you buy an office chair. So it's so buying your your equipment, it's trying to inform them about what they need to know about your, your industry before they make a purchase.


Susan Tatum 3:09

Providing value.


Vanessa Green 3:11

Yeah, exactly.


Susan Tatum 3:12

So you mentioned that you were journalism background. And I think, you know, what, if they will we talked before you said something about that you think marketers should not approach or people shouldn't approach marketing like a marketer. And you? And I, I can understand what you're talking about? Because I have a journalism degree. And I've never actually practiced it, but I get it. But for the listeners who don't have that background, what what what do you mean by approach to marketing like a journalist?


Vanessa Green 3:43

Yeah, look, I think so when I think about like copywriting in terms of how it fits into marketing. Like, it's really like, you know, journalism is all about listening and asking the right questions, right. So I think when it comes to marketing, we need to do more of that, like more listening, you know, it's not just about, you know, here's a brief go off, everything's siloed. It's like, really collaborative. It's like using those interview techniques to like get to understand the core of someone's business, ask the right questions, you can get the right responses. And think about your your audience. I think that's something that, you know, a lot of businesses and especially smaller businesses don't often think about is like, they just think about selling whenever they're selling, they don't think about how it's going to benefit their audience. So journalism is all about the readers, how do I capture their attention? How do I get them to read a headline? How do I make sure that they repast you know, the first paragraph and that's what good marketing is, right? It's just getting people to read the next line of your copy. They use very similar techniques in terms of how they engage people and how they kind of get them to take action or change their mindset. So, you know, I've worked in agencies where it was like, here's a brief client goes away, you're very siloed and don't work with them. You don't get a chance to necessarily ask questions and dig into their business and I've kind of thrown that Out the window. Clearly, you still need to understand goals and objectives as an audience's but I really like to work collaboratively like everything I do with my clients is like, we're on the phone, I'm asking questions, even if it's just an email, like I'm trying to understand from their perspective, and their audience's perspective, like, how do we make this really compelling for the end user? And I think that like marketing has kind of strayed from that in a way like it's, it's now it's kind of been very siloed. And it's not that collaborative, investigative approach where you're trying to like, analyze it from an outside perspective, you know, it's still very insular.


Susan Tatum 5:37

Well, yeah, you certainly see a lot of marketing this all about us all about me, all about the products. And based upon the sheer number, the lack of differentiation that you see, among a lot of products and services. And and people there probably hasn't been a lot of thought put into what is it that the that the readers wanted to buy or Swanton? You know, who is it that we're talking to? So if you get a brief from somebody, which is just a baby that used to be anyway, piece of paper? that says, you know, this is, this is, this is what we want to communicate. And this is who the audiences is that still pretty much somebody's sitting in an office, or people sitting around the table, making stuff up, or just giving their own opinions and not really getting out and talking to folks.


Vanessa Green 6:23

Yeah, like I think,you know, I think when I work with clients, it's interesting, because I feel like, you know, often small business owners are just like, you know, they're going through the motions day to day, they're not, they don't have the chance to sit and think about their, you know, their business from like a holistic view, where they're, you know, working like on the business, not in the business. So I think the benefit I've experienced with clients is like, I can kind of come in and provide that fresh perspective, right, like, I'm new to their business. I don't know, you know, the, I'm not like I can see the wood for the trees, right? Yeah. Well, I think what a good copywriter does is they challenge business owners to answer those questions like you were saying, like, what's your differentiator? Like, if you don't have that, it's going to be very difficult to write compelling copy for your business because if you're just like everyone else, then you don't necessarily have anything interesting to say. So I think a copywriter kind of comes in and challenges the brief challenges the client on like, what is it that you know, makes you stand out in the marketplace that you're in? You know, and how are you providing benefit to your, your audience? I don't want these are questions and it sounds obvious, like to a lot of people, but a lot of business owners don't do that. Right? They're just trying to like, make their sales hit their targets, you know, run their business, like do their books, like, you know, just keep keep the lights on, and they're not always thinking strategically about how they market their services.


Susan Tatum 7:43

Yeah, well, if they don't have access to marketing talent, exactly, they probably, unless they go buy a book, and then that's, that'll just get them started a little bit. So, you know, I think what's coming through, and what you're saying is that, you can't just put some thoughts down on a piece of paper and hand it off and expect a copywriter to go do something brilliant,


Vanessa Green 8:03

for sure. And I think like, you know, if a client was like, here, you know, I don't have time to talk with you, or team's too busy, or I can't commit, I would be like, what, you know, it probably wouldn't be a job I would pick because I know I can't do great work, unless I'm pulling those insights from them in an interview, and, you know, that's, like, my favorite thing on my copywriting of the client is they'll be like, Oh, I love that line. And I'm like, wow, actually, you said it, you know, like, at the end of the call we had, and I, you know, I thought it was great. So I just put it in there. And, and it's funny, because they have all that knowledge, right? They have the insights, if they understand what makes them successful, and you know, how they appeal to their audience, but they've never had to sit down and actually write it out, you know, put it on paper. So it's, it's all in their head. And I think that's where having as copywriter that relationship is so valuable, because they ask those questions to like, pull out that golden thread and get that you know, in writing either on a website or sales material, or your email marketing or whatever it is, like they they kind of, they work with you to pull out those those kinds of key insights about your business and your audience.


Susan Tatum 9:06

The stuff that's in your head,


Vanessa Green 9:10

that's for sure


Susan Tatum 9:11

not been put in paper before. So how much we're talking about busy business owners, small business owners, how much time does it take to have that conversation with a copywriter or like, like, I think a lot of business owners will hire a copywriter because they don't have time to do it, you know, short because some people think everybody can write and you and I know that's not true. But if they're, I'm wondering if people were rolling their eyes when you said we you know we need to be you need to spend time with a copywriter and talk about these things. What kind of time is it that they have to set aside for that?


Vanessa Green 9:43

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And I'm also still mindful that everyone again like is trying to run their own business so it's not like you know, let's sit and take a day together. But what I do for clients on like a website, copy call is all booked out like 90 minutes, right? It'll be like one call, maybe two. If we filled we didn't get everything covered. But generally speaking, I only need one, one call and I'll lead it. So they just show up, I asked them also not even to prepare, because I almost feel like sometimes when you over prepare, your answers are not authentic. So, you know, they just they get on the call, I asked them a million questions like I will lead the call. So really, they don't have to prepare, they just show up. And then they share their their expertise. And I try and ask questions, to get the answers I need to write copy that is, you know, going to be really, really powerful. And so I think you should be expecting to spend, like, you know, that's really it, and then reviewing your copy, right. So that's the amount of time you have to put into it, I wouldn't say it's, you know, you're still hiring them to do all the heavy lifting. And if they're not doing that, then you know, probably want to reconsider that relationship. But, you know, I think for my clients, when I do that, it's like, they'll sit and talk to me for half an hour. And then I do the hours of work it takes to you know, craft that into something that's, you know, really effective, and then they review it, and then it goes live. So really, it's all their insight. It's my copywriting skill that results in something that's, you know, really valuable and full of their experience and knowledge. So I think, you know, you can't, you can't expect to just hand something off to a copywriter and just be like, Okay, off my plate, I'm done with it, there has to be a little bit of involvement if you want that output to be really strong and reflective of your business.


Susan Tatum 11:13

So you said something, we said many interesting things, but one that the next question I was going to ask you was what kinds of questions should a business owner be able to answer or, and I was thinking about thinking about it ahead of time says if they're prepared to have this conversation with you, and you just said, I don't like them to prepare, because it's not as spontaneous as if we're just having a conversation. So just by virtue of the fact that they own that they own the business that they've been running the business, your your, your thinking is that they've got it in their heads, and you're just going to pull it out?


Vanessa Green 11:50

Yeah, I think I sort of,


Susan Tatum 11:51

I was gonna say, What about involving their clients? Or their customers in the input for something?


Vanessa Green 11:57

Yeah, for sure. Like, there's a good line, and I can't remember who said it, but it was like, you know, as a copywriter, like, I don't write for the person who pays me I write for the person who pays them. So as in like that, as the audience you're writing for? Is your clients, clients, your clients customers? So absolutely include them? Like, I think that's so important. I always ask about things like persona research, have you done any customer profiles? Have you done any case studies, and case studies are great, like when I do them, for clients, it's like, you know, you interview with clients, you get to understand the value you're adding from their perspective, and this is something we touched on before, but often what you provide, and what they provide, like think you're providing are very different, right? So I might think the value I provide is writing. But you know, for my client, it might be like, Well, I feel confident, you know, now this is competence. For me, my business that my website is, is professional looking and strong. And so I can, you know, freely hand in my business card to a client knowing that, you know, I'm not gonna be embarrassed, they're gonna visit my website, and it's, you know, copy I wrote myself five years ago, or whatever. So we can look at that value element is we don't necessarily know what value we're providing, unless we asked those questions to our clients. And then you know, usually when you do a case study, you'll get a great testimonial, you can put on your website, I think social proof is really undervalued. Like, that's better marketing than anything, you can write about yourself to someone else talking about how much they liked your product or service. And then you also if you don't have those customer profiles, you have a case study allows you to start crafting those because you do enough case studies, you start to see the similarities in that ideal customer base, and then you can start creating those, those profiles. So there's like a lot you can leverage from, from case studies and from clients. But yeah, I think knowing as much as you can about your audience is going to result of better quality copy, because you understand how to offer value to them, and how to talk about things that will benefit them directly. Because you know, what their their challenges are.


Susan Tatum 13:45

Do you think it's better for a client to try to talk to talk to their customers and ask the questions themselves or to have someone else say someone like you do it on their behalf?


Vanessa Green 13:57

I mean, it's a good question, I guess it kind of comes down to, you know, I would always say like customer research, any way you can get it is good. But it is nice to hire like a third party, because then they come in and they're, they're kind of dispassionate, in a way. It's not their business, if there's negative feedback, you know, not that you want to get that. But if there is, you know, it doesn't personally affect me, if I'm working as a, you know, I'm working as a service provider for a client, for example, but also that negative feedback is incredibly valuable, because then you know, how to, like make improvements to your, to your offering to make it stronger. Plus, I think, you know, professionals can ask better questions, they understand, you know, what information they need from a marketing perspective to make that message really powerful. So I mean, if you don't have the resources or budget to hire someone, then absolutely do it yourself. But like, you'll probably get a better quality product if you ask someone who's trained in writing case studies to do it for you.


Susan Tatum 14:49

And it probably doesn't have to be real complex thing. I mean,


Vanessa Green 14:52

no, not at all. I mean, it's, you know, it's could take depending on sort of the complexity of the project, but like, you know, you can sit on the phone for 20 Minutes, asked her a bunch of questions, see where the value was? What were the were there any challenges? You know, how did you help solve for that challenge? Like, there's a lot of kind of, you know, standard questions you can ask. And then I think where where that journalism background comes in and is valuable is like asking follow up questions. So like, if they say something that piques your interest, you kind of go down that route and kind of ask further for further details or further explanation. Because often, you know, you might not know there might be something that wasn't mentioned. But you're like, actually, that's the more interesting part of the story is that you did XYZ, but you thought you would right kind of thing.


Susan Tatum 15:34

I can't, you know, of the number of times that I've been involved in or around client interviews, where where there's searches for, why do you do business with this person? Or what do you value and what they offer you the number of times when there is something completely different that comes out of that conversation than what the client thought it was going to be? is a way in the majority,


Vanessa Green 15:59

For sure. And I think that's why, like a good copywriter will try and put themselves in your customers shoes, right? Because that's how they're going to write better quality copy. So that's why those those calls are so important, because like, as a business owner, you're not going to know right? Like, you're not going to inherently understand the value you're providing because you have this specific viewpoint you're just you know, day in and day out providing that service you can't necessarily just guess you know what value you're offering so that's why those interviews are so important right? They pull it such valuable insights from your your customers and that you can use for your prospecting too


Susan Tatum 15:36

Yeah. So you mentioned good copywriters and there's a there's no lack of copywriters out there good or not that that people can hire. What should we look for? How do you evaluate a copywriter?


Vanessa Green 16:51

Yeah, that's a really good question. And there's such a low bar to entry for like, you know, a lot of creative jobs. I mean, anyone can basically say they're a copywriter. There's no copywriting school and you have to go to you can obviously take training, but it's not required. So I think there's like, definitely probably a surplus of people calling themselves copywriters that maybe you know, aren't necessarily, I think you should look for someone. So definitely have an introductory call, like I'm not a fan of things like Fiverr or Upwork for this because I feel like you don't get to build that relationship out and really understand who you're working with. You should look at someone who's really curious and asks really good questions. Like I think people are always like, oh, you know, copywriters should you know, be like Hemingway, right? He's like, elegant prose. And it's like, Sure, they have to be good at writing. But that's not really what they're doing. They're trying to, they're trying to push some products and services, right in the creative way. And, and so the first thing they need to do is they need to ask the right questions to get the right information. So they can write copy, that's, you know, will really have a lasting impact. So it's less about flowery prose, I think it's more about do they really spend the time to understand my business, and my audience and my challenges and my objectives, because to me, that's kind of the most, the most important thing is that I have a good understanding that before I write, and then clearly, you know, you don't want to hire someone who can't string a sentence together. But I also think there are qualities that we overlook, because we aren't thinking about how strategic the copy is, as part of your marketing mix, right? Like, it's not just about writing something that sounds great has to be strategically aligned to your business and your audience too,


Susan Tatum 18:22

oh, I'm thinking of a mistake that I made in hiring a copywriter one time and, and still looking back on it. I don't know exactly how I made the mistake, but because I looked at examples of his writing, and the conversations that we had were good, and the questions that he asked were good. But then he wrote these, he loved words, and it was almost like he was being paid by the word. And this is for a website, and where, you know, people are scanning and it's gotta be quick, we don't have time to be we're not reading for entertainment, at least a nest this type of website, and I could not get him off of that. How would I have seen that coming?


Vanessa Green 19:00

Well, you know, it's a good question. And like, it's something I had to be really mindful of too is like, you know, I think copy you often just think about the words and you know, just being on a page, but actually, you have to be really considerate about how you structure that, like as you said, no one's gonna read, like, you know, a block of text on a page, you have to consider how you structure your ideas and concepts. So like, you know, on the website projects I've worked on, it's like, there's a real traditional copywriting formula of like, headline, sub headline, you know, paragraph your, your call to action and then you can have you know, columns and you can have you know, different ways you structure tax to kind of keep people engaged because you're right, like people need to have their text needs to be visually presented in a way that is easy to read the catches their attention, but allows them to skim like, we've kind of really changed the way we consume, copy and content and so that needs to be considered when they are like when I'm sending off my copy to a designer, which is often you know, that's where it goes after I do it, you know, I give them direction where I think things should go. And they're obviously free to make their choices. But I try and be as helpful as I can, because that's a really important part of copy. It's not just the words, it's like, well, how are you structuring them? How, what is the layout look like? Have you considered the user experience? Like, there's kind of a lot that goes into copy that beyond just the words themselves? So I think maybe looking for examples of websites that they worked on, right? If that's the project isn't, well show me how you how you structured it, you know, were you responsible for the layout? Or did you just provide some copy, and they reworked it to fit a wireframe like I think there's kind of questions that you can, you can ask to see if they, they understand that, that element of copywriting.


Susan Tatum 20:42

So when you're writing your are, you have, in your mind, the layout that the pages is going to take.


Vanessa Green 20:45

So it depends, like kind of depends on how the client works. So actually, I found a lot of small businesses have preferred and some of the designers and developers I work with prefer copy to lead design. So they say you send me the page, and I will, you know, I'll use that to structure the website and mock something up. So that's how I actually worked quite often. However, if the if a client comes to me, and they're like, we've got the wireframes, we've got everything laid out and designed, we just need to copy that, like, I will do that too. We can do. So I think it's you know, it's funny, I feel like it's kind of a common, I wouldn't say like conflict, but a kind of common challenge for design and copy is like, who's who's leading who, right? Like, am I? Am I telling the designer what they should be? How they should be structuring the site? Or do I just wait for them to tell me okay, here's the here's the layout, you write the cylinder with all the copy. So I kind of do both, when I've actually lately, like, it's been predominantly me leading the structure, not the design, like I'm a terrible designer. So don't try and hire me for that like, sometimes it's helpful, if you understand, if you if you could kind of lay it out for them, it's easier for them to kind of create a design around it. And it's all flexible, like so much today is, you know, everything is designed in sort of like sections and blocks. So things are easily movable. I think that's the way that the water website is it's you know, things can be rearranged easily and restructured easily because it's not a block of text, you're trying to create things like easy to digest chunks. So that's kind of how it's been for me so far. But I think, you know, a lot of clients work differently, but I'm happy to kind of take either a pro or


Susan Tatum 22:21

Whatever they want


Vanessa Green 22:22

Yeah,


Susan Tatum 22:23

I was thinking of the all these templates that we see four websites now that it kind of seems to control the number of words, but that can be a good thing. I mean, I It's an interesting question about which comes first, and I think nothing drives me crazy faster than a designer that has so much control that interferes with the readability of something


Vanessa Green 22:44

For sure. Yeah. And that can be challenging there. So when it comes to marketing, there's so many stakeholders feeding into the process, right? So it can become very challenging, I'm lucky that I've worked with many designers, I work with one on a number of projects, and we're, you know, we know each other well, there's a lot of flexibility and communication there, right and either of us are trying to like one up the other. So again, that that part's all about that relationship building, and I'm very respectful, respectful of like, you know, it's like good copy is nothing without good design, and vice versa, right can even have a beautiful site, and it can look awesome. And if the copy is terrible, it's just gonna completely detract from the visuals. And same for me, like I could write great copy, but visuals are bad, it's not really going to matter. Right. So that's why, you know, it's at that classic combination in marketing, you need to have both of those things, the messaging, and the design has to be, you know, incredibly strong together to be effective.


Susan Tatum 23:35

So is there any reason for I mean, it doesn't sound like it's necessary for the designer and the copywriter to even know each other. If you're, it sounds like it can sort of be done independently.


Vanessa Green 23:46

I mean, on some of the small business projects I've worked on, and I can't This isn't to say like, this is how it works across the industry, because I think my my clients are, you know, very specific in their needs. Like if you're working on like a high end, you know, enterprise level website, it would be it would probably be a much more complex process where you would have to have all these stakeholders meeting and there'd be a lot more consideration, you know, in terms of like back end and UX and UI and all of that. But we definitely like I talked to my designer, but yeah, like I think I'll hand over the copy of he has questions, he asked me if he wants to make changes or what he's done, I'll review it and maybe give some feedback. But like, at this point, like I have been able to kind of work independently, and then make changes based on feedback kind of after the fact. But I also think it's one of those things like, sometimes it's easier just to have something to start from, even if that's not what you use at the end of the day, just to kind of give you a general structure


Susan Tatum 24:37

in terms of wireframe.


Vanessa Green 24:42

Yeah,


Susan Tatum 24:43

yeah, I can see how that would be. Because if you just start with a blank page and start writing, then yeah, I think there's like this kind of formulas


Vanessa Green 24:47

yeah, I think there's like this kind of formulas like and I hate to use that term because it makes it sound like everyone's websites the same, but obviously the content will be different. But I saw a really interesting post on LinkedIn the other day about kind of the sort of Anatomy of have a website and it was sort of you know, like, and we know this because we look at websites all the time, but it's like you have your your header. And then you have you know, you'll have your proof points, like who are your clients, you'll have some testimonials, you'll have a contact form, you'll have an about us, like, a lot of websites, you know, you're not reinventing the wheel like are some pretty consistent sections that you will include on a homepage and on a website. So I think it's kind of just using that as a general template and then tweaking it so that it's specific to that that client and their audience,


Susan Tatum 25:27

you know, and I think that's an important point, because I sometimes find myself looking and saying, Oh, well, that was template, blah, blah, blah, because yeah, because it gets to where they look so much alike,


Vanessa Green 25:39

totally.


Susan Tatum 25:40

And you and you kind of have a style, I want to do something different. But the visitor to the website is come to expect something and they're gonna give you about seven seconds. And if they can't, if that and if they can't find what they're looking for, but it's not where they thought it should be. They're gone. So I guess. So we can't get too creative with that.


Vanessa Green 25:59

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely people that do push the envelope. And I think that's great. Like for certain businesses, if you're in a really creative agency, maybe you want someone that's, you know, really stands out from the pack. But I think, you know, from my businesses that I work with the clients that I support, it's like, you know, they just want something that lets them look professional, that gives prospective, like air prospects, like an easy way of getting in touch with them, that showcases the value they offer that, you know, has that social proof that they've you know, been in this industry, they've had, you know, successful client relationships, they understand their market, like, it's a real proof point. For a lot of people and most of my clients, this isn't like a lead generation exercise. They really just want a professional looking website for people to get in touch with them, learn about their business, do that sort of pre qualification research, and you know, have a blog so that you have that information there and show that you're invested in your marketing. So that's so I think that's, again, why it's important as a copywriter, like that's my client base, that's probably not going to be every business out there. Others will have different goals and objectives and different audiences. And they'll need their business to do different things. Like if it's an Ecomm business. That's like a whole different kettle of fish. I haven't really worked with a ton of Ecomm businesses. But you know, that's why it's all about understanding that strategic back end. What are the objectives? Who's the audience? What are the goals, all of those types of things?


Susan Tatum 27:15

All right, that makes sense. Well, we are running out of time here and never even got to all of the topics that we're planning to talk about. But thank you, that was a very informative and for the folks that want to follow up with you. What's the best way to do that?


Vanessa Green 27:30

Yeah, so that will be great. My website is Greenlightcontent.ca. I'm on Instagram at Greenlight content, Vanessa Green on LinkedIn, and Vanessa@Greenlightcontent.ca If you want to drop me an email.


Susan Tatum 27:42

All right, we'll put those in the show notes. And thank you so much for being here.


Vanessa Green 27:47

Great. Thanks so much. It's really nice to be here. Thanks for having me.


Susan Tatum 27:50

Talk to you later. Bye.



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