What CEOs Miss About Product Management and How Consultants Can Help

In this episode, Susan talks with Paul Wetzel, a former multi-time Chief Product Officer who now advises growth and late-stage B2B software companies. Paul shares what many CEOs misunderstand about their product function, why product management often lags behind other investments, and how consultants can use market insight—not a sales pitch—to open doors. He also breaks down the real impact of AI on software companies and why now is the right time to offer outside help.

Notes from the Show

• Product management is often underfunded and overlooked. Even in product-driven companies, founders and CEOs may neglect this function, assuming it’s being handled until major issues surface.
  

• CEOs aren’t hearing the full story. Product teams and CEOs often hear “only good news,” which masks underlying dysfunction or misalignment—an opportunity for consultants to provide fresh perspective.
  

• AI is exposing deeper product problems. Many companies are using AI as a solution in search of a problem, revealing weak product strategy and misaligned priorities.
  

• Clear market insights beat polished pitches. Sharing actionable benchmarks or frameworks (like product R&D spending norms) creates credibility and opens conversations with senior leaders.
  

• The new normal creates opportunities for consultants. Amid chaos and constant change, nimble, experienced consultants can offer immediate impact in ways hiring full-time roles cannot.

Paul’s Perspective:

AI is exposing pre-existing weaknesses in the discipline… a lot of companies are building things because the CEO told them to build something in AI.

Clear market insights open doors better than polished pitches. Show something useful before asking for anything.

What’s Inside:

• Connecting with Senior Leaders in Product-Driven Companies

• What happens when CEOs Overlook critical issues in the product team

• 3 ways AI is at use in product development teams

• What reaches the client? Market insight vs a polished pitch

Mentioned in this Episode:

Paul Wetzel | LinkedIn

Productwerks Consulting

Transcribed by AI Susan Tatum 0:00

Hi there. Welcome back to Stop the Noise. I'm Susan Tatum, and today I'm talking with Paul Wetzel, a multi time chief product officer who's now an independent consultant helping software companies get better results from their product function. If you have ever tried to connect with senior leaders, especially in product driven companies, you know, it can be tough to break through, but Paul brings a perspective most consultants don't get to hear, and that is what CEOs are actually worried about, why so many of them overlook critical issues in their product teams, and how you might be able to help if you approach them in the right way. We also talk about how AI is exposing bigger initial problems, and why market insight, not a polished pitch, is what earns trust. So let's get into it.

Susan Tatum 0:59

Today I'm talking with Paul Wetzel, who is a former Chief Product Officer now advising growth stage and late stage business to business software companies on how to get better results from their product function. I invited Paul here today to talk about what goes on inside the heads of Chief Product officers and their CEOs, and how to get through to these folks and start relationships with them. So Paul, welcome. I'm so glad you're here.

Paul Wetzel 1:25

Thanks, Susan, really appreciate the invite, and excited to cover the topic today. I think it's really timely.

Susan Tatum 1:31

So before we jump into that, give us just the quick who you are and how you got where you are and what you do.

Paul Wetzel 1:39

Yeah, I started out as a developer in airline software in the mid 90s. And you know, that was before product management was really a thing. I transitioned into financial services software with FICO, and really started to through corporate strategy roles and then ultimately solution product marketing, get exposure to product management, and that's really where I've spent the rest of my career, in product leadership roles, or anything from late stage startups to kind of late stage growth companies transitioning into mature software companies. It's all B2B, all enterprise software. And yeah, I've been a team of one, and also led a team of 65 people in a product management function. So lot of experience across financial services, travel and transportation, consumer engagement, e commerce.

Susan Tatum 2:32

we talked before you had a really to me, an interesting point of view about CEOs not realizing that their product function is holding back their growth. Am I? Do I have that correct? [inaudible]

Paul Wetzel 2:46

not at all. No. And you know, there's a self selection that happens that I'm likely finding clients who fall into that category. Certainly, there are CEOs who you know are super savvy and on top of a product function, well, while performing, etc. But what I am finding as a trend is, yes, you know, product management. It's very ironic, because these are product companies, right? And so one would think, as a relative outsider that product management as a team would be kind of one of the first things to get funded, staffed, evaluated, consistently upgraded. What ends up happening, though, is, if you think about, say, co founders going through the stages of a startup, they can do product management, anybody that kind of understands the industry, understands technology at a high level, can kind of think about, hey, what do we want to build? That frequently comes from the co founders. But if you think of other functions, they're never going to scrimp on, say, sales, because they want to grow through growing revenue. They may be able to do finance and accounting but not want to. They may be able to do product support but not want to. And so you get the situation where, and I didn't even mention engineering, right? Some co founders are coders, right? So you get CTOs as a co founder, but that's a function that also gets staffed appropriately, you know, I think more frequently, and it's really then this product management function that is frequently weak and that can drive really suboptimal outcomes in terms of growth, customer satisfaction, customer retention, all the, all the KPIs that you think of with product outcomes and in a software company.

Susan Tatum 4:29

saw a post that you published, I think it was, it was in the last week, and it was about hearing nothing but good. Or is it the product, the project, the product leads hearing nothing but good. Or is it the CEO hearing nothing but good? Or is it both?

Paul Wetzel 4:46

100% both, you know, again, if we pick up on that thread that we were just talking about, you know, a CEO who is a co founder who, you know, he or she conceived of this product offering. You know, you. Can build in a lot of bias that prevents you from kind of seeing the weaknesses of the product and where the blind sides are. And then I think if we go to the second part of your question, just about product managers and product teams, it is quite challenging. All the functions in a company are challenging. There's nothing that's easy. But when we talk about what's Why is it challenging to be a product manager? You're constantly balancing the, you know, way more demands on the product than your capacity to develop new enhancements, right?I've never been part of, or heard of a company that has just the right amount of development capacity, it's always not enough, right? If it was ever enough, the company would probably go bankrupt. And so that process of continuously prioritizing with a transparent, fact based decision making process, you know what to do that can lead product managers to your question, to not really want to hear new information that might change, what's currently being developed, what's on the roadmap for up next, etc, because that's kind of an inconvenient truth a lot of times, if they get facts, newly found facts, from, say, a customer, a prospect, or they find competitive, you know, pressure that kind of makes them change things at the last second, right, for something that's maybe already planned in flight, promised, etc, right? So, yeah, the product managers can fall into a pitfall of, you know, not really wanting to get disagreement or input from customers on roadmaps or similar topics like that.

Susan Tatum 6:41

So did you mention that there is a an this creates an opportunity for consultants? In your opinion?

Paul Wetzel 6:47

Absolutely. Because unlike that co founder, CEO, for example, and it doesn't have to be a co founder, you know, could be a hired CEO or the product manager, I think consultants always come in with a fresh set of eyes, right? And so we've all joined companies prior to being consultants. And you know that that kind of that honeymoon period where you've got a fresh set of eyes, it's, it's got a shelf life, right? It might last three months, six months, nine months, then you've fully been indoctrinated. You're drinking the Kool Aid, and of course, you're you're still trying to keep an unbiased view of things, but it's only human to be pretty close to the topics, given that you're in the trenches in those topics, day in and day out. When you're a consultant, you can always come with a fresh set of eyes to kind of pose these alternative viewpoints that should always be considered when you're thinking about, what's the product vision, what's the product strategy, and then how does the roadmap hang off of that?

Susan Tatum 7:48

So where is the place to look for that kind of opportunity for, I would say, for consultants that might be listening to this, that this is appropriate for what is there something that you see from the outside that problems exist, or, I mean, does a company ever say, Hey, I think we need to get a pair of outside eyes in here.

Paul Wetzel 8:08

Yeah. I think, you know, part of the not science and me being successful and people like me being successful is yes, some will say that, hey, we need to get a fresh set of eyes. But many won't just because they're not aware of what. You know, independent or small consultancies are even out there, and you know what kind of skills and backgrounds they have that could help them. You know, I think every CEO under the sun is aware that Accenture McKinsey are out there, but they'd be loath to pay those kind of rates, and frankly, those large consultancies for the companies I'm targeting wouldn't probably go that low anyway, in terms of, you know, late stage growth, late stage startups, for sure, and then a lot of the growth stage companies, depending on their size. So I think awareness is a big thing. As an outsider, it is tough to see some of the signs, right? So, you know, some of those signs that senior leaders, be it a product leader or a CEO, could see inside the company about why they're struggling, right? So chronically underachieving growth targets, you know, the development team and leader being unhappy. That's an interesting one that kind of shows, probably flailing direction and inability to kind of pick a vision and strategy and stick to it for a period of time until you can really see whether it's paying off. You know, products, like a lot of other things, you can't be all things to all people. And so developers are smart. They know when there's not a firm direction that we're kind of sticking to. So that's another thing that those product leaders can see, certainly like restless customers, churn win rates that aren't what you need them to be. Those are things that are really difficult to see from the outside. And so then I think it's just a matter of getting the awareness out there through. Through networking, through, you know, blog posts, et cetera, that you can help right kind of identify what's the reason you know you're not gonna necessarily go in there and be enlightening for them that they're not hitting their growth rates. They're already gonna know that what you are gonna do is claim to be able to make the linkages for the underlying cause, right? Are causes more likely for why they're not hitting those growth rates? And as we started out, you know, this session underperforming underfunded product teams are a key reason for that. Is what I'm finding in the market,

Susan Tatum 10:35

it seems like so you mentioned. I think it's customer churn or not meeting their revenue goals. Certainly, sales leaders would be screaming if it's a problem. I guess pretty much anybody that relies on that kind of thing,

Paul Wetzel 10:50

yes,

Susan Tatum 10:51

you said that your work that you're doing now is either primarily with CEOs or you. CEOs are the buyer, the client for you, or you get into a company through the CEO is that that's your focus.

Paul Wetzel 11:05

I think that's right. Susan, you know, I I talked to some great people when I was starting up, you know, who had done similar things. And I'd like to take credit for this idea, yeah, but I can't as you know, it was after those conversations that the seed planted that, you know, where I started with my messaging and targeting was broader and, you know, thinking, hey, cast a wide net. Maybe it is a senior product leader. Maybe it's a mid level product leader, but he or she happens to be the most senior product leader in the company. Back to my theme of this is this is frequently an underfunded team, or maybe it's the CEO. So I had a pretty wide aperture on my messaging. What I've tried to do, as a result of, you know, input from people who have been doing this for several years, versus the year that I've been doing it, is really target CEOs, because I think, as you indicated, I really need to be sponsored, you know, by a non product leader. Given my background, I think most senior product leaders are going to view me more as a threat or redundant talent to what they have. And so it's really that CEO who might be starting to question, you know, whether their senior product leader is the right fit and or they don't have a senior product leader, and they're trying to decide when's the right time to invest in that right and so I think that's really where I am today. Is really trying to focus on the president, CEO, as my entry point.

Susan Tatum 12:31

You mentioned, I know that you post on LinkedIn. You mentioned awareness is that, are you, do you? What do you post on LinkedIn? About once a week?

Paul Wetzel 12:40

I target once a week. You know, if it's been three weeks and I haven't posted, I really try and carve out some time, you know, to get something fresh out there. I think how I'm viewing those posts at this point in my independent consultancy, it's kind of evolution, is that it's really validation and credibility more than, you know, creating a funnel. It could be over time that I see those, you know, those posts actually generating new leads. But I think the foundation I feel like I'm building with them right now is, you know, anybody that I network with through my personal network, word of mouth networking, etc, new, networking can go out there and kind of see much deeper points of view from me than would be appropriate on a website, right, you know? So they can scan down that list of topics. And of course, any one of them, they're not going to be interested in the 14 posts there, but two of them might jump out as maybe being relevant for some of the challenges that they're experiencing.

Susan Tatum 13:42

I think that's really smart that I mean, that's what I that's what I advise people. That's that's how I advise people to look at it. I think your our profiles today are like somebody referred to it as a modern day business card, and everybody just about is going to go look at your profile and to have that content there that's in the recent stuff in the Featured area is, is just such a good way to for them to say, oh, okay, so Paul gets me, I and I understand how he thinks, and we really should talk, yeah, that's cool. What are you seeing change? I mean, what does the market look like to you? So we're talking mostly yours is you're in SAS Type product for finance and the travel industry, still, is it as big a disarray as everything else seems to be?

Paul Wetzel 14:29

Yeah, right now, for sure. I mean, I think, and you just touched on those verticals. Another thing you know, we can touch on that we haven't yet is, you know, it would certainly be more applicable to me, and also say a sales leader or a marketing leader, the extent to which you've got that specific vertical experience that lines up with the prospect where I'm at right now is really going general. So I'm taking an approach to say, even though, yes, my background is financial services, travel, consumer engagement, e commerce. You know, I have, I've got a customer, for example, that's in the healthcare space. I don't have a lot of healthcare background. What I bring to that customer is vertically agnostic software, product management, best practices and knowledge. And so I think that's something that any consultants got to navigate, as long as you're, say, outside of a area like finance, right? And you're going to have to navigate, what are you actually bringing to the table? A lot of customers, I think, are looking for kind of, maybe have unrealistic expectations about a consultant that can come in and maybe lay a golden egg, super, super familiar with their vertical, their competitive landscape, and then also familiar with everything internally they might have challenge wise, with the product itself, the product team, the overall product development function that I say that's unrealistic, because, you know, you're looking, you're looking beyond a unicorn at that point, right? You know, for for someone that's going to be able to do that. And so I'm pretty clear, you know, up front that, you know, if somebody's looking for, you know, specific vertical, you know, background and experience, and that really is what they think their pain point is, right? That, you know, I I look to refer them to somebody else in my network, right? You know that that might have that experience. And so I think that's really relevant to answer your question, though, yes, everything's in disarray. Everybody I'm talking to and probably aligns with you as well. It's the new normal. You know, everything just feels like it's accelerating and it's not going to there's no ebb in this, right? It's just flow. And so I think, you know, I'm been accused of being, you know, an optimist to the nth degree. And I think, from a consultant standpoint, that creates this opportunity that, you know, companies that are going to succeed have to be nimble, and it's very difficult to be nimble just through hiring, right? So you can bring in outside talent for targeted projects, right, that are milestone based, or you can bring in outside talent for, say, a retainer for a period of months or quarters, it may turn into even a fractional role, right? And, and that's a lot quicker kind of time to market, if you will, than opening up a position and then going through a six to nine month, you know, kind of learning curve for somebody that's that's going into a full time role. So, yes, it's crazy. Yes, it's in disarray. Yes, I think it's just going to be the new normal. And yes, I think that really creates some opportunity for consultants.

Susan Tatum 17:41

somebody once said, or I read, that, change when there's chaos and there's a lot of change going on, is the best time to find the opportunities. If everything's smooth and running, running really well, then it's it's a lot harder to get the inertia.

Paul Wetzel 17:57

I totally love it. You know, the Chinese kanji character, right for opportunity is the same character as the one for crisis, right? Great reason that goes right along with what you were just saying, right? Is a fractured kind of fluid space, I think, is where the companies are, and CEOs are going to be reaching out for help, right?

Susan Tatum 18:21

So what's on their minds as it relates to product management, product development? I know that you've mentioned that if there's a disconnect, it's going to show up in not making revenue goals mark and fit with our products. Talent Acquisition, maybe. What are the main thing that these folks are, are fresh to buy right now.

Paul Wetzel 18:43

Yeah, great, great question. So let's, I've got one kind of soft topic and then one kind of harder topic. So the the soft topic would just be angst, right? So hit on this earlier. But you know, if you think about angst from large strategic accounts, the customer, banks, in general, the sales leader, like you mentioned, the sales team, right, the development, engineering leads and developers, right? When things aren't going well with the product, you're gonna see a lot of angst and unhappy, you know, kind of feedback, and so I think that's gonna be top of mind. I think that links to, kind of the the the second key topic, which, what did we make it, you know, 20 minutes without saying AI. So, I don't know, we get some type

Susan Tatum 19:31

of my list,

Paul Wetzel 19:32

yeah. So you know the we're talking about tech here, right? So, you know, AI is everywhere, including service industries and, you know, fast food companies, et cetera. But especially, we're talking about tech, right? So these people are getting inundated with AI, messaging, et cetera. And so I think how that manifests for what's top of mind for these people is a multi fold so one can we actually use AI in the development, product, development process itself, right? And so you've seen what I've had, I've seen, you know, people are even talking about whether it's smart to put their kids into developer careers, whereas 10 years ago, five years ago, that was like the no brainer. Right?

Susan Tatum 20:20

Now, it's the trades,

Paul Wetzel 20:21

yep, now it's the trades, right? It's going to be a while before AI can fix your fix your sink, right. And so the So, that's one piece. I think. The other piece about AI is it's really disrupting this every space in a way that leads to new competitive entrants, lower barriers to entry. I think a lot of that's hype, just like AI everywhere. But we've all seen that a new entrant, even if they're not proven, if they're saying that they've got an AI driven two year old code base that slices and dices, you know, and cooks and toasts, they'll at least get meetings from those prospects. Then creates that kind of competitive pressure for these kind of more established late stage growth, late growth stage and late stage startup and growth stage companies. And I think that's top of mind as well. And, you know, so, yeah, those are two things that kind of show up and are kind of driving, I think, a lot of this new normal, right?

Susan Tatum 21:27

I think you mentioned when we talked before that, AI was kind of a solution in search of a problem. The way that that is, it's it's being your feeling was that it's being misused.

Paul Wetzel 21:38

So I great, great segue. So I I talked about two areas that AI is kind of relevant. One, you know, how can we use AI to be more efficient in our development function, shorten time to market, reduce our headcount, whatever that case may be, right? So I talked about that. Secondary I talked about is how AI can drive these new competitive pressures that haven't necessarily existed before. So now your question kind of fits on this third area about the use of AI and creating function, functional outcomes for the customer, right, solving customer problems in the product itself. Right? That's different than those first two topics, and I think that's where Susan, yeah, I'm seeing a lot of cart before the horse, and it underscores this kind of problem that we've talked about, which is kind of underfunding of product teams, product functions, product leaders, and the product discipline in general, in that a well functioning product team enforces discipline in the company around making sure that we are laser focused on what is the business problem that we're solving for the end customer, and why should they care? Right? You know, in other words, are they going to pay for it, right? There's lots of business problems you can fix for a customer, but are they going to pay for it, right? Then we get into the how, right, okay, once we've determined what the business problem is, why the customer cares and are they going to pay for it? Now let's pivot into the how. How should we build it? Should we buy a license a third party software that already solves this problem? Should we build it internally? If we build it internally, what should the design be? Right? Should it have all of the bells and whistles, or should we take a phased approach. So that's the how AI, in essence, is a how right? It's how we build tech to solve customer problems. It's not the what and the why, but because board members are crazed about AI, strategic accounts are crazed about AI, CEOs are feeling a lot of pressure to be able to market and make AI based claims. What's happening is we're doing a lot of solutions that are searching for problems, right? So we're we're saying, Hey, what is a some kind of use case that we can think that would be relevant for AI tech? Let's do that, and let's expose it to our customers, and a lot of those initiatives are landing kind of like big thuds, because the customers say, Okay, I'll give you an example natural language query of my operational data in your software, whereas I used to have to drag and click multiple things. That's great, but why aren't you spending that dev time and solving my bigger problems that I've been harping on you guys for a year to solve that might have nothing to do with AI? And then what's the answer doesn't come and well, our CEO told us to build something in AI, otherwise we're all in trouble, right? And so I think that's what's happening in this kind of craze and hysteria around AI is it's exposing pre existing weaknesses in the discipline inside of a company to really stay true and tethered to what are the most important business problems that our customers care about, and why does this item matter more than another item? And then say, if items three, seven and 12 on that list can be delivered by AI, that's great. If none of them can be delivered by AI, then we might not be building anything by with AI in the near future, right? And so it's probably an overstatement, but you kind of get what I'm saying, right?

Susan Tatum 25:15

I get it the other the thing that was going through my head when you were talking about the why and the how was, you know, I might I use, I use chatGPT every day. I don't know how I lived without it before

Paul Wetzel 25:24

me too!

Susan Tatum 25:25

but, but mine is, I'm sure my use is less sophisticated than what would be going on in these companies with this product development, but chatGPT lies. I mean, you're constantly having to check and see was not as bad as it used to be, or else, I've gotten better at prompting and recognizing things, right? I would never just let it go out there and tell me what's happening in the marketplace and what people want. It'll come back with a great story. But it's still got to be verified by humans

Paul Wetzel 25:53

totally. And that, that was always what I think the best thinking in AI, was that it will only ever be human assist. It won't be human replace right? And so that's where it's great. You know, we're all trying to learn and grow and how to be more productive with it. And full disclosure, I should tell you, you've actually been interacting with the AI based persona of myself during this podcast. It's not actually me. So some of my stuff is a little advanced, maybe, but

Susan Tatum 26:20

you've done a great job. Oh, wow. All right, I got, I still have, like, two pages of things to ask you, and we're running out of time here, but one thing that I do I would like you to hit on for the audience is that you had mentioned that there, it's sharing clear market insights that will get you in the door and not the pitch.

Paul Wetzel 26:39

Yes, I think that really gets back to really knowing, as a consultant, are you, are you going to make hay on your vertical your knowledge of that vertical space that you're targeting a customer, the vertical that they play in. I shared before you know that I'm really going vertical agnostic. It's not entirely black and white like that. You know, obviously I spend a lot of time in mortgage tech, for example, right when I talk to a customer that's in that space, obviously I'm going to leverage my deep familiarity with that vertical but in this even if you're vertical, agnostic for your function and your discipline. I think clear market insights are very helpful. Give you an example, the podcast I'm just gonna release, sorry, the blog post I'm just gonna release today is about how to justify product development expense, and that's something that CEOs get asked by boards frequently, right? Yeah, hey, you know the why is this the right level of spend, right? Why shouldn't it be more? Why can't we cut it in half? Right? Those are reasonable questions that CEOs get asked by boards and and CFOs, right? On a continuous basis. And so, you know, some of the data that I pulled to include in the blog post was just benchmarks right for early stage startup, late stage startup, growth stage, mature software companies, etc, of percentage of revenue, you know, spent on R and D and so I think that's where, you know, you kind of have to show a little bit of what you'd bring to the table in those types of quantifiable insights, and more than just kind of sharing platitudes in whether it's your blog post or your pitches, you know to them, they reached out, or they're at least listening to you, because they've kind of run out of patience with whatever their problem is, so cutting to the chase and trying To get in that value paying it forward by providing insights before you're getting paid to provide insights, right?

Susan Tatum 28:47

You know, what I see across the board is it's also it's having a unique point of view which which goes to the insights, because there's so many people out there now, there's so much good, high level talent available on a contract basis, and maybe that's temporary, and people will get full time jobs and go back to work. But right now, there's a lot of competition, and buyers can't really tell the difference always between my 20 years here and your 20 years there and that. So the the expertise and and experience becomes sort of table stakes. You got to have it to get in the door. But what makes you different?

Paul Wetzel 29:24

Yeah, and I'm with you. I think what you said is absolutely true. I wish it weren't, but you've got to have that unique point of view, and then that network is never going to go away to try and get you some type of differentiated in where so and so said that this person did well for this other person, right? And so, but yeah, and AI created content. There's so much out there, so I think, like back to our theme of working in concert with AI, like making sure that you get your unique point of view mixed in with any AI generated content that you're creating versus just spewing out the AI's voice, right?

Susan Tatum 30:03

The usual stuff, yeah, that it found with. Well, Paul, this has been great. I really appreciate your being here. You've shared, you've shared so much with us. For anybody that wants to follow up with you and maybe read some more of your stuff, I assume it's okay if they get in touch with you,

Paul Wetzel 30:20

absolutely, yep, and it doesn't need to lead anywhere. Yeah, LinkedIn is great. So yeah, just mentioned Susan's podcast. Right? Stop the Noise, so I make sure I filter that inbound above the other noise that I'm seeing, right, that you heard me there. And I'd love to connect and learn the great things that your audience is doing, and see if I can help but also learn and grow from what they're doing.

Susan Tatum 30:43

That's fantastic. Thank you so much, and thanks again for being so open with us

Paul Wetzel 30:47

Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate it. You're doing great work.

Susan Tatum 30:50

Have a great day. You too. You